Automatic Chronographs


The Vintage Citizen Automatic Chronographs

Specifications:

Citizen produced two types of automatic mechanical chronographs, both launched in 1972 – the 8100A and the 8110A. Although named ‘A’ there are no other designations to this movement. The movements are compact in size and are all high beat, running at 28,800 beats per hour. They are well specified, featuring hand winding and ‘fly back’ – which allows the wearer to zero the chronograph whilst it’s running, rather than having to stop it first, then restart. This permits instant stop and re-start of the chronograph function.

       

The compact design of the movement allowed smaller casing, so they tend to be smaller and lighter than, for example, the Seiko chronographs of that period. I understand that the nature of the design results in it being harder to work on when servicing or repairing. Both movements are 27.00mm wide. The 8100A is 5.82mm deep, whilst the 8110A is 6.72mm.

Essentially the movements are the same, with each respectively featuring one sub-dial (the 8100A), the other (the 8110A) having two. The chronograph functions are as follows:

  • seconds counter – full sweep hand (both types)
  • minutes counter – sub-dial one (both types)
  • hours counter – sub-dial two (8110A only)

The chronograph is started and stopped by pressing the button positioned at 2 o’clock or 11 o’clock depending on model, and is reset by pressing the button at 4 o’clock or 1 o’clock again depending on the model. Pressing the reset button without first stopping the chronograph enables instant restart from zero (‘fly back’).

All models have 23 jewels and the column wheel/vertical clutch design of the movement means that it is advised to leave the chronograph function running to minimise wear – this of course happily results in the seconds counter running continuously as would be the case in a non-chronograph piece. However, it’s also worth noting that leaving the chronograph running all the time could result in the clutch parts seizing together, so it is advised that sometimes the watch should be run with the chronograph stopped.

These movements have quick setting mechanisms for date and day. Both are set when the crown is pulled out one click – the date by rotating the crown, the day by pressing the reset button.

Model Range:

I’ve attempted to identify all the models in the chronograph line-up, but in the absence of authoritative historical documents there may be gaps in this summary – hopefully over time these can be filled. So far I have found 12 types of 8110A (plus one titanium cased special edition) and four types of 8100A.

Some models are considerably harder to find than others whilst the most well-known model, for which there is a ready supply of after market dials and hand sets, is the ‘bullhead’ type. Properly called the ‘Challenge Timer’ I believe this 8110A model had the longest production run, and certainly reached 1980. It was also nick-named the ‘Easter Rabbit’. These have been the hardest models to reach conclusions about, bearing in mind the many examples with after market dials and the greater number of original variants, so I have included only those models which I am confident are originals.

Most models have an associated model number, all in the form ’67-9xxx’, whilst I have found two that have a case number only, i.e. 4-90xxxx. The 8110A models all have case numbers as per 4-901xxx, whislt 8100A models have case numbers as per 4-900xxx. With the advent of new materials at the time, a good number of Citizen’s chronographs have black coated cases or bezels alongside the more conventional stainless steel, base metal and gold plate. It’s always worth checking that the case material code on the case back matches the rest of the watch, and please note that base metal cases carry the code ‘SS’.

Although I provide the case material code, not all models have the code stamped on the case back. See also the notes against the specific models, which include dial codes where I have been able to identify them, whilst I hope that the images adequately show the colour of the main and chronograph hands and other details. I’ll be covering original bracelets/bands separately.

Citizen used a radioactive lume on some dials, although there doesn’t appear to be any logical pattern to this, since the same model can either have this type or a non-radioactive lume. This would seem not to be a major concern now since Citizen only used Promethium which is a low energy beta emitter with a half-life of only 2.6 years. Dials with Promethium lume can be  identified since they are not simply signed ‘JAPAN’, but are signed ‘P-JAPAN-P’. I am grateful to ‘Mikko’ who researched this issue and let me have this information. Here’s an example of the dial text on my 67-9119 model:

To illustrate the various models here I have used my own collection, web links to other models, and images from Japanese auctions and the internet, for which I wish to give due credit. You’ll find attribution for specific images in the text where relevant. I also want to acknowledge Citizen for the images I’ve used from their original catalogs and technical manuals.  If I have used one of your photos please let me know so I can attribute it, or remove if preferred. Here is a pdf file of an original Citizen booklet on the 8100 and 8110 chronographs, which includes setting instructions:

CitizenChronographBooklet

The 8110A’s:

4-901096 Case Number – 4-901096 (Challenge Timer)       (NB – no model number given to this model) 

                                                                                                             

Case Material: BLS (black case, stainless steel bezel)

Dial Colour: Green, black sub-dials, black date & day wheels

Dial Code: 901166

Marked ’23 Jewels’

NB – possible variant, not yet able to verify, case  / model numbers not known:

_____________________________________________________________

67-9011 Case Numbers – see a,b & c (Challenge Timer) Case Material: SSB (base metal case, black bezel)

Marked ’23 Jewels’

Dial Colours:

a) Silver, black sub-dials, black date & day wheels, black inner tachymeter ring, case numbers 4-901177 & 4-901053, dial code 901018

b) Silver, black sub-dials with multi-colour markers, black date & day wheels, silver inner tachymeter ring with 5 minute markers, case number 4-901011, dial code 901069

c) Dial Colours:  Black or Grey, black or grey sub-dials with multi-colour markers on minute sub-dial, black date & day wheels, printed Citizen logo, case number 4-901177, dial code 901051 (image of  Grey model courtesy of ‘ JAY48’ and ‘total_time22’)

Here are images from Citizen:

          

And one from the series of Japanese domestic watch reference books:

______________________________________________________________

67-9020 Case Number: 4-901193, 4-901029 (Challenge Timer)

Case Material: GPB (gold plated case, black bezel)

Dial Colour: Gold, black sub-dials

Dial Code: 901026

Black date & day wheels

Marked ’23 Jewels’

_____________________________________________________________

67-9038 Case Numbers: 4-901037, 4-901169

Case Material: SSB (stainless steel, black bezel)

Dial Colours: Blue, black or silver . Sub-dials: Blue & Black – silver sub-dials / Silver – black sub-dials 

Dial Codes:  Silver – 901247 / Blue – 901042 / Black – 901034

Silver inner tachymeter ring

White date & day wheels (silver, blue & black dials) or black (blue & black dials)

Marked ’23 J’

                               

Alternative dial designs, found in an original 1970s catalogue, possibly for the Australian market. Note the smaller crown used on these:

67-9038bluecatalog1970_zpsralqzjzt

67-9038blackcatalog1970_zpskoi48pol

Note that the applied CITIZEN logo and the printing beneath it (Chronograph/Automatic) are centre justified rather than left justified. Blue dial has black day and date wheels, with green sub-dial highlight colour:

67-9038bluedialcatalog1970_zpsgbhwtmky    67-9038blackdialcatalog1970_zpsjml9xpyl

(YouTube clip by ‘chiapettrip’)

______________________________________________________________

67-9054 Case Number: 4-901070

Case Material: SSB (stainless steel, black bezel)

Dial Colours: Green or Blue with black sub-dials

 

Dial Codes:  Green – 901903, Blue – 901123

White date & day wheels

Marked ’23 J’ or ’23 Jewels’

Tachymeter on bezel

________________________________________________________________

67-9071 Case Number: 4-901061

Case Material: BLS (Black, stainless steel top)

Dial Colours: Green or Gold with black sub-dials (first photo of gold version by ‘Martback’ – note replacement second hand, catalog pic courtesy of ‘Axel66’)

 

(Above photo is courtesy of ‘Scoobadoo’, showing gold dialed version on steel and black bracelet)

The Dial Codes: Green – 901115, Gold -901107

White date & day wheels

Marked ’23 J’

________________________________________________________________

67-9119 Case Number: 4-901045

Case Material: SSB (base metal, black bezel)

Dial Colour: Black, black sub-dials

Dial Code: 901077

White or black date & day wheels

Marked ’23 Jewels’ or ’23 J’

Inner rotating tachymeter ring

________________________________________________________________

67-9143 Case Numbers: 4-901134  & 4-901088 (Challenge Timer)

4-901134 (with acknowledgement to eBay seller):

http://www.himawari.sakura.ne.jp/~garaken/TEZ/TEZ-C3.htm

4-901088 (with credit to Mikko for image):

 

Case Material: BLG (black, gold bezel)

Dial Colour: Gold, with black sub-dials

Dial Code: 901026

Black or white date & day wheels

Marked ’23 Jewels’

________________________________________________________________

67-9151 Case Number: 4-901118 & 4-901142

  

Case Material: SS (all stainless steel )

Dial Colour: Shaded dark green to pale green centre with hexagonal pale green sub-dials. Three versions with different borders to the sub-registers – all yellow, white/yellow and orange/yellow. Yellow second hand with all yellow borders, otherwise orange second hand:

 

Dial Code: 901204

White date & day wheels

Marked ’23 Jewels’ or ’23J’ (yellow & white dial)

Octagonal case

________________________________________________________________

67-9178 Case Number: 4-901100

Case Material: BL (all black with fixed external bezel, metallic greenish gold tachymeter insert)

Dial Colours: White with white hexagonal sub-dials or black with black sub-dials (photo of black dial by Don Crotty)

 

Dial Codes: Black – 9012xx, White – 901221

White date & day wheels

Marked ’23 J’ or ’23 Jewels’

Sometimes known as the ‘Spaceman’

________________________________________________________________

67-9313 Case Number: 4-901207

 

Case Material: SS (all stainless steel with fixed external bezel, black tachymeter insert)

Dial Colours: White with white sub-dials or black with black sub-dials

Dial Codes:  White – 901271  /  Black – 901263

White date & day wheels

Marked ’23 Jewels’

Sometimes known as the ‘Speedy’, due to resemblance to the Omega Speedmaster

________________________________________________________________

67-9356 Case Number: 4-901223 (Challenge Timer)

  

(White dial image courtesy of AdamNYC, of the PMWF)

Case Material: SS (all stainless steel)

Dial Colours: White with black sub-dials or black with silver sub-dials

Dial Codes: White – 901280, black – 901298

Black date & day wheels (silver dial) or white wheels (black dial)

Marked ’23 Jewels’

Octagonal case

________________________________________________________________

Walter Wolf Special Edition

 

Model / Case Number:  8110-901231 (Black Dial/ Titanium Case);  8110-901258 (Gold Dial/Titanium Case);  8110-901240 (Black Dial / Black Case)

Case Material: TI (all titanium, with rotating  external compass bezel, black or dark blue insert), and Black (BL) over base metal

Dial Colour: Black, Pale Gold

Dial Code: 8110-901310 (Black) & not known (Gold)

Black date & day wheels – Black Dial,  White day and date – Gold Dial

Walter Wolf Formula 1 Racing Team special – one version has gold lettering on bezel insert. Dial marked Walter Wolf Racing & Water Resist 100

________________________________________________________________

The 8100A’s:

4-900014 Case Number: 4-900014 (NB: no model number given to this model)

Case Material: SSB (stainless steel, black bezel)

Dial Colour: Black, with black or silver sub-dial

 

Dial Codes:  Silver sub-dial – 900020 /  black sub-dial – 900038

Black date & day wheels

Marked ’23 Jewels’

________________________________________________________________

67-9551 Case Number: 4-900022

Case Material: BLS (black with stainless steel bezel)

Dial Colour: Black with black sub-dial

Dial Code: 900046

Black date & day wheels

Marked ’23 Jewels’

________________________________________________________________

67-9577 Case Number: 4-900031

Case Material: BLS (black with stainless steel bezel)

Dial Colours: Black with black or silver sub-dial, blue with silver sub-dial

 

Dial Codes:  Black with black sub-dial – 900071 / Blue with silver sub-dial – 900062 /  Black with silver sub-dial – 900054

Black date & day wheels

Marked ’23 Jewels’

________________________________________________________________

67-9631 Case Number: 4-900049

Case Material: SS (all stainless steel)

Dial Colour: Blue with blue sub-dial

Dial Code: 900089

White date & day wheels

Marked ’23 Jewels’

________________________________________________________________

Case Parts Catalog, 1977

Here’s a scan of the relevant page from the 1977 ‘Original Appearance Parts Catalog’ – interestingly only 8110A models are listed, no 8100A’s. For information, the top row, which gives the model number, has additional numbers at the end, which I believe indicate the dial colour. So those with ‘-10’ at the end (eg. 67-9313-10) have silver or white dials, ‘-50’ have black dials, and ‘-80’ are gold dials:

________________________________________________________________

Schematics:

1. The Movement Family – this shows the two types and their dimensions:

2. Exploded View, Rotor Side:

3. Exploded View, Dial Side:

_________________________________________________________________

Parts List (shows shared parts and those for 8110A only):

392 Responses to Automatic Chronographs

  1. Vicente Sanz says:

    I have 2 of these like the ones in your picture: One has a black calendar/day wheel, and the other has it in white. Was there a choice on black or white wheels, or somebody switch a black for a white one? Thanks in advance.
    67-9011 Case Numbers – see a,b & c (Challenge Timer) Case Material: SSB (base metal case, black bezel)

    Dial Colours:

    a) Silver, black sub-dials, black date & day wheels, black inner tachymeter ring, case number 4-901177, dial code 901018

    • Jari Kailokari says:

      Hi Stephen,
      I bought this recently from ebay.de

      Model 67-9577, black with silver sub-dial 900054. You have wrong (67-9557) model n:o in your article =D
      I was surprised how small this watch is. I was expecting something like 45mm dia. case. But the design is flawless and it functions beautifully. I paid 129€, was it too much? It’s defenately not mint, there is some light wearing in the black painting on the back of the case. Other than that, it’s very good.
      Some day I will buy bullhead. They are mean looking little machines.
      Best Regards,
      Jari Kailokari
      Finland

      • sweephand says:

        Hi Jari, thanks for your comment and congratulations on buying an excellent piece 🙂 Thanks also for pointing out my typo, which I have now corrected. I can’t believe I hadn’t seen that before!!

        Thanks too for the link to the pic, since that has given me the dial code for this version which has filled a little gap in the information.

        The 8100 and 8110 movements are a very compact design, so the cases are smaller than you might expect – suits me well since my wrists are skinny! To pack the features these watches have in such a compact way is another sign of their quality. Not many of these models are seen for sale so it’s always difficult to assess whether the price paid is ok or not – in my opinion yours is worth what you paid. It may be slightly on the high side but it you plan to keep it I would think it will rise in value as long as the good condition is maintained. When you think about it that is a very good price for a fully mechanical, high beat chronograph with flyback and hand winding…..

        As to the bullhead, if you want an original version that is, remember that there are many after-market dials for them.

        Stephen

      • Jari Kailokari says:

        Hi Stephen,
        Thanks for reply. You can use the pic if you like, it was taken by me =D I’m glad that I could help you, since I admire your effort and willingness with other vintage watch aficionados.
        And my wrists, since I’m hard physical worker and drummer, are definitely not skinny.
        You mentioned that there might be after-market dials on bullheads. I’ve seen many from Thailand and India. Do you think those are one’s to be aware?
        B.R, Jari

        • sweephand says:

          Hi Jari,
          I’ve seen watches with after-market dials or just the dials themselves for sale in other places as well, for example in the UK and Canada. I’ve shown the original dials in the article, so any different colours – and there are quite a few (for example yellow, blue, red, green, lilac) – are not original.

          Stephen

  2. sweephand says:

    Hi Vicente, thanks for your comment. I’ve been wondering about this myself, since my 67-9011 has white wheels. I didn’t include it as original at this stage since my case parts catalog from 1977 only gives one part number for the day wheel, which I believe is the black one (shared with the gold dial versions). The catalog does have two part numbers for the date wheel though, so it’s possible that white was used – maybe on later models than 1977. My example is from 1980, what is the production date for yours?
    Stephen

  3. Vicente Sanz says:

    How di I find that out?

    • sweephand says:

      The first number in your serial number gives the year – there’s info on how to work out production dates at the end of the Movement Table, which you can access via the Blogroll

  4. Vicente Sanz says:

    Could I get a copy of the catalog?

  5. Vicente Sanz says:

    Thank you. My watch is from 1977.

    • sweephand says:

      You’re welcome 🙂 One thing I’m unsure about I have is whether my 1977 catalog includes all chronograph models produced at that time. It’s printed in English, so presumably would cover models for export – but could there have been more models, which were for the Japanese domestic market only?….

  6. JAY48 says:

    Wow, excellent post! I have been prowling the internet for more information on the different 8110 powered watches. My favourite is the 67-9119 (actually, I won one and it’s on its way to me). What is odd with mine is that the dial has been replaced with a 67-9038 dial which is silver with with black subdials. The bottom subdial has green accents. I can send you a picture of it when it arrives if you require.
    Another fact regarding the 67-9119s is that certain versions have “23J” instead of the complete “23 Jewels” on the dial. These have black day/date wheels. The catalog image from 1973 (which lists the 67-9119 as 23,000 Yen) also shows such a model. I thought this was an interesting variation as the black day/date wheel matches the black dial.
    Best regards,
    Jay48.

  7. sweephand says:

    Hi Jay, glad the article is of interest and thanks for commenting. Your comments are very welcome and helpful and just what is needed to build the information on this line of watches. I’d be interested to see a pic of the watch you’ve just bought when it arrives. And thanks for the info on the 67-9119 in the 1973 catalog – I’d missed that so I’ll update the article right now!

    Stephen

    • JAY48 says:

      Dear Stephen,
      You’re welcome, glad I could contribute to an excellent post such as this! I will definitely send you photos of my ‘mystery’ dial when it reaches me. I actually didn’t know a catalog scan of the 67-9038 existed so I saved it for reference as well. I would love to see this full catalog, though. The 67-9119 has a rotating count-down bezel which is similar to diving watches, but it counts down instead of up. An useful feature if you’re flying from one point to another or if you’re baking a batch of cookies!
      Best regards,
      Jay48.

  8. sweephand says:

    Jay – if you can pm me via one of the forums, e.g. Seikoholics or SCWF, I might be able to get more scans to you from the catalog

    Stephen

  9. Vicente Sanz says:

    From 67-9011 how many dials there were originally? I mean how many colors. I know Silver with black tachymeter for sure. Was there a white dial with black tachymeter? I see them aftermarket in Ebay. Or so I think, maybe my watch was white and now looks siver because of age.
    Any info will be appreciated.
    Thanks

  10. sweephand says:

    Hi Vicente, at the moment I have only included the ones I am as sure as I can be are the original variants, which are silver as far as I know rather than white, black, gold and green as shown in the article. I’m being very careful about what goes in as ‘original’ since there are a lot of after market dials for the 67-9011’s. Over time it may be that I can be sure that there are other colours and I’ll then include them. For example I’ve seen a grey dialed example – but I’m not sure if that’s the original colour, or a faded black one! Hopefully other people, like Jay48, will be able to provide more information and we can build on this reference material.
    Regards,
    Stephen

  11. Catherine says:

    Hi,

    Thanks for this article! I was wondering if you could tell me about this 8110A that I picked up. Is it truly a grey bezel or just faded? How collectible are these models? Thanks!


    Thanks again,

    Catherine

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Catherine, thanks for taking a look at my blog 🙂

      Since you’ve sent me a pm via the SCWF, I’ll reply to that rather than here,

      Regards,
      Stephen

  12. Allen says:

    Hello Stephen
    I have a black dial model challenge timer all original as in your photo case number 4-901177. I just wanted to let you know the dial code on mine # 901051 ka. Your blog here is a great reference for this model, thanks for all your efforts.
    Allen

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Allen – thanks for your kind words, I’m glad the blog is of use. I have added the dial code to the article, thanks very much for taking the time to post your comment and fill in this gap.

      Stephen

  13. Vicente Sanz says:

    Sweephand, I have a couple of questions. I have this pristine Citizen 8110A and I wanted to ask you if you think it is all original.
    It is a silver dial. Dial code: 901018 KA, that is what it says between 4 and 5..
    Check the picture I have I have pictures of my 2 Bullheads the one I need info is in the #9 post:
    http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/citizen-8110-model-high-end-watch-617679.html#post4507723

    In the back case it says:
    SSB
    8110
    4-901053 Y
    3123301 7
    67-9011
    Do you see anything wrong or mismatched?
    Thanks

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Vicente – your watch is certainly pristine! It may well be all original, but there are two things I can’t confirm without any doubt just yet. First is the white date and day wheels – I have the same on mine – but the models I know that are absolutely correct have black wheels. My suspicion is that they were originally made with white wheels as well but I need to see a catalog or something similar to be completely sure. The second is the case code – 4-901053 – the usual code is 4-901177. I have seen your code on a few others though (but they’ve had black date/day wheels!) so it may well be perfectly correct, especially since everything else in the case back is correct.

      Hopefully I’ll be able to confirm these things one day (soon I hope!). So, although your watch may be absolutely correct I hope you understand that I can’t say that until I can verify these two things. It’s very frustrating but there’s not a lot of information around.

      Regards,
      Stephen

  14. Vicente Sanz says:

    So you have seen this code 4-901053 Y in bullheads like mine? Silver dial, just like mine?
    Thanks

  15. Paco says:

    Hi, First of all I want to congrats you for making the best post of Citizen chrono´s. I´ve been searching this for a long time, it was always a mistery for me to know all the variations of this boys. As you must know it´s really easy to find information about Seiko´s but if´s really hard when you´re interested in Citizen´s. A few months ago I made a post about this chronos in the forum http://www.relojesparatodos.com , the idea of that post was to collect information and photographs about the Citizen´s. Thanks god a another person of the forum found this forum and linked it in a comment. I would like to ask you for permission to use some of the information and photographs that you put in here, If you´re ok with that i´ll really preciate.
    Thanks a lot for this post.
    Paco

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Paco – thanks for your comments, and I’m glad that you and your forum has found my blog 🙂 Like you I started trying to find information about vintage Citizens, and found it very difficult, so I decided to do the research myself and put the information together. It’s taken about two years to reach a point where I was confident I had good data.

      I am very happy to share information with you and your forum if that’s helpful to you and other Spanish speakers there – I’ll e-mail you later (this evening) about that.

      • Paco says:

        Hi Stephen, I already sent you an email. Thank you very much for being so gentle. Hope we can make something as good as this with your help.

  16. Aldo from Manila says:

    Sweephand

    Great article.
    Have been researching on citizen since i found an old watch of my dad’s.
    My dad died in ’88 and left very little so i was very excited to see his old citizen.
    Am planning to restore it but im not sure if its the real deal or a replica.
    I’d like to find out more about before i invest on it.
    I’ll try to post a pic soon.

    Aldo

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Aldo, thanks for your comment. Hope you can post a pic soon. Does your father’s old watch have a model number on the case back?

      Regards,
      Stephen

      • Aldo from Manila says:

        Stephen here are the pics


        The back pic not thwt clear but it says
        4-901193K
        70301130
        GN-4-S
        67 9020
        JAPAN
        GPB

        Tried to look but i think this is the closest i have seen it look
        Its in your post as well
        Vintage 8110a automatic flyback chrono.
        Am i right?

        Thanks in advance for your inputs

        Aldo

        • sweephand says:

          Hi Aldo,

          thanks for the pics and the information from the case back. You are right that the model you have is the blue dialed 67-9038 you found in my blog.

          Although the case and dial are correct, the case back on your father’s watch has been replaced – the one on yours is from the 67-9020 ‘bullhead’ model which has a gold plated case with black bezel, and a gold face. The correct back can be seen in this post: https://sweep-hand.org/2011/11/17/this-weeks-featured-watch-16-67-9038-chronograph/

          Nice to see on yours that the black bezel is original – many are polished back to metal since they get chipped over the years.

          Regards,
          Stephen

  17. Aldo from Manila says:

    Great. Thank you stephen for the info
    Im going to the watch repair on friday.
    Hope everything goes fine
    Will post pics.

    Aldo

    • sweephand says:

      You’re welcome Aldo. Looking forward to seeing pics once it’s been to your watch man,

      Regards,
      Stephen

      • Aldo says:

        hi stephen,

        not sure if you remember. i posted last may re: my dad’s 67 9038.

        its almost finished, the watchmaker said we are just missing the whole mechanism of the sub dial(lower part ) – not sure how its called.

        my question is, would you know where i can possibly source this part?
        tried looking at forums and ebay to buy watch for parts. but so far i havent found any. so my next question is – will parts for 67 9038 be the same with other bullheads? so i can widen my options, amy specific models to look for?

        thanks

        aldo

        • sweephand says:

          Hi Aldo, good to hear from you – I do indeed remember your post from last year. I’m pleased to hear that you have made progress on repairing your father’s watch. What a shame that the lower sub-dial mechanism, which is the minute recorder, needs to be replaced. It doesn’t matter which model it is any 8110A movement will be the same as the one in your 67-9038, and since it is the minute recorder, the 8100A will also have the same parts (the 8100 doesn’t have the upper sub-dial which is the hour recorder).

          Stephen

  18. Mike M. says:

    I have collected pocket watches for years, but was never much of a wrist watch fan until I bought a 67-9011 at a local market last weekend. I ran across this site while I was trying to find out more about my “new” watch and was very impressed with the wealth of useful info that I found here.
    I just wanted to take a minute to say “Thanks!”
    Mike

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Mike, thanks for your comment and ‘thank you’, very good of you to take the time, it’s much appreciated. Glad to hear that you have found useful information here, and I hope your interest in vintage Citizens leads to more acquisitions 🙂

      Best regards,
      Stephen

  19. JOSE IGNACIO SIBON SANCHEZ says:

    QUIEN PUEDE VENDERME UN DIAL COLOR VIOLETA PARA UN CITIZEN BULLHEAD 8110 ?

  20. Hello steve here, I have the blue faced chrono with orange second hand . 4 – 900049 – Y 31121646 [8100] 67 – 9631 GN – 4 – 5 or S . I’m thinking of listing this nice watch . Runs fine has a CQ flex link clasp band ( sorry no pic’s yet ) . What is the price range for this watch working ( crystal can use a buff.) Thank you…from steve n renee…stevenreneesplace.com

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Steve – not many of this model come up for sale. A couple I’ve seen over the past 6 months or so on European eBay sites sold for between $110 and $140 as far as I can remember. Condition is important of course, and these were in decent condition rather than excellent / mint, and I think both were on original bracelets (whilst your is on a later Citizen Quartz replacement bracelet).

      Hope this helps,
      Stephen

  21. Hello steve again stephen , Thanks I was guessin’ it would be somthing like that . I’m runnin’ a Navihawk this week on ebay. Not the blue angel. I’ll have a hard time listing this blue faced citizen I’ve been wearin’ it for 2 week. Thanks steve ..

  22. sweephand says:

    You’re welcome – the 67-9631 is a rare model, and an unusual design. Good luck with the sale,

    Regards,
    Stephen

  23. Anonymous says:

    Hey sweephand,
    I would like to bring toyour attention that there is a 4-903xxK that has an 18-karat gold bezel,but is otherwise similar to the normal 67-9020.

    • sweephand says:

      Hi, thanks for your comment. Do you mean it has a gold plated case and a gold bezel? Don’t think I’ve seen such a model – the 67-9020 has a gold plated case with black bezel, whilst the 67-9143 has black case with gold bezel. Also all the 8110a models have a case number of 4-901xxx afaik. Have you any pics you could link to? If not are you able describe what’s stamped on the case back?

      Regards,
      Stephen

  24. Anonymous says:

    Hey Stephen,
    Actually it is very similar to the 67-9020.I meant to say that(I think)and the shopkeeper said it has an 18k gold case,even though it is the same as the 4-90113 thing otherwise.It says 67-9020 and gpb on the back.But it has a sort of deep scratch,and you can still see the gold,which makes me believe that its solid gold.

    • sweephand says:

      Hi, thanks for the information – the key thing is that the case back is marked ‘GPB’, which stands for gold plated case with black bezel. If the case were solid gold it would be marked ‘K18’. I’m sure Citizen never made a chronograph with a solid gold case. They did do that on one or two high end pieces, for example the Leopard. I’m not sure why the deep scratch appears not to show the nickel alloy underneath – did the case look bright and clean? Could it have been replated do you think? These cases often get badly worn, and I’ve seen quite a few that have had the gold plate removed and the base metal polished, so re-plating could be a possibility.

      Stephen

  25. Anonymous says:

    I was thinking that my back said the wrong thing,because when my granddad bought it back in the 70s,the shopkeeper said that this was an 18k model,and I know its not been replated because i)Its not even been serviced in all these 34-35 years ii)The scratch came when I was wearing,a month or two ago.I don’t think gold-playing lasts flawlessly for 35 years(because the strap is supposed to be gold plated I think,but thats all faded off.P.S.I’m not trying to undermine you or something,just giving you my feedback.Maybe its something like citizen made a few solid gold watches?BTW is it possible to plate something with 18k gold?Because that just might be what the shopkeeper had meant.

    • sweephand says:

      Hi, it’s great that this is your grandfather’s watch and that he’s owned if from the 1970s 🙂 I thought when you mentioned the shopkeeper that you had seen it for sale. I don’t feel undermined at all, this is very interesting to me. When I first started collecting vintage Citizens I found very little informtion about them, so I decided to research them myself and put what I found together, and any possible new information that comes to light is great. I appreciate you commenting here.

      What would be great is to see a photo or two of your watch – is that possible? (you can’t post pics directly, but can post a link). One other thing that would help is for you to weigh the watch – we could then compare that to the standard models.

  26. Anonymous says:

    I’m sorry,can’t post any pics for now.Will post in a week or two.I checked on a random weight checking thing in a store,and its weight is above 130grams(around 134-135).How mich does the normal 67-9020 weigh?P.S.do you now

  27. Anonymous says:

    I’m sorry,I can’t post any pics now.Will do that in a week or two.I checked it on a random weight checking device in a store(digital),and it weighs more than 130grams.(134-135).If it is a gold-plate,I think its a lot thicker than the usual ones are,as the base metal is just not showing through,even after all its been through……..but I still think its solid gold.If it is,would you mind updating your record up there?

  28. Anonymous says:

    That is the weight of the watch with the bracelet.How much does a normal 67-9020 weigh?My posted weight is not 100% accurate.

    • sweephand says:

      I haven’t got the 67-9020 model, but my 67-9011 which has a base metal case, weighs in at about 105grams, including bracelet. A gold plated version will weigh only a tiny bit more I would think. My black coated model, without bracelet weighs 55grams. So the weight of yours seems to be significantly more, but we could do with an accurate measurement to make a proper comparison. Is it possible to weight it accurately? And it would be best if it didn’t include the bracelet if that is possible too.

      Stephen

  29. Anonymous says:

    I’m sorry,it weighs only 113-114 grams.Turns out that machine was horribly inaccurate.Is it possible that my watch is still solid gold or gold filled?P.S.It looks a whole lot better than the picture of the 67-9020 you posted.

    • sweephand says:

      Thanks for checking the weight, that’s really helpful. With its ‘GPB’ case back I would think it is a gold plated model, that sounds to be in very good condition. Has the watch been worn very much or has it been stored out of harm’s way? There are very few images of this model around, the one I’ve used I found on the internet and was the best since it is all original – quite a number I’ve seen for sale have had something changed. Here’s a scan of this model from the Museum Book of Japanese Watches – it’s a crop from a photo of a double page, so the resolution isn’t too good. But you can see the finish on the case – it seems to be a slightly brushed or satin finish, not a polished one. How does yours compare to this?

      MuseumBook67-9020

      • Anonymous says:

        Mine looks a whole lot closer to gold than that.Give me your email ID and ill send you the pics.Mine has not been kept put of harms way,but it hasnt been damaged by a lot of ill-treatment either.It’s seen its fair share of falls and other damage that happens to watches(well what do you expect of 30+ years of almost daily wear?? :P)

  30. Anonymous says:

    Hey,I got it checked,its an 18karat gold plate 😦 Can you mention that in the details list?And are the crystals made of mineral or sapphire?

  31. sergiosaurio says:

    Hola. Thank you very much for thos great article!!! I now know how to change the date of my bullhead and to eave the second hands running to avoir wear!!!
    I have one as this one in your blog with black tachymetre and black subdials, silver case.

    Mine has written in the fron this: Japan 8110 (left) 901018KA (right)
    Bottom; 4-901177k
    91202935
    GN-4-S
    67 9011
    Japan
    SSB
    May I know the date of manufacturing? thank you!!!
    Cheers!!!, Sergio , Patagonia, Argentina

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Sergio, thanks for your comments, much appreciated 🙂 I’m glad that you have found my blog useful.

      The 8110 chronographs including the bullheads like yours were made from 1972 until around 1980/81. As far as I know only the bullhead models were made as late as 1980. So to date yours we use the serial number – 91202935. The first number ‘9’ gives the year of production and since it has to be between 1972 and the early 1980s, the year of manufacture of yours must be 1979. The second two numbers – ’12’ – give us the month, so its December of that year.

      Saludos,
      Stephen

  32. Vicente Sanz says:

    Is it true that you need to keep the seconds hand running to avoid wear?
    Thanks

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Vicente – yes it is best to leave the chronograph running. This puts less strain on the mechanism so wear is less. The design is very similar to the vintage Seiko chronographs, and it is advised that the chrono is left running on them too. It’s also best to let the chrono run as the watch runs down if you are not wearing it for a while – otherwise, even with the watch wound down, I understand that there is some tension on the chrono mechanism. It is different with the Swiss chronos, they should be stopped whenever the chronograph functions aren’t being used.

      The nice thing about leaving the chrono running is that you always see the smooth sweep of the send hand 🙂

  33. sergiosaurio says:

    Hola: excuse me, this is most useful and I have a Citizen and Seiko automatic choronos from almost the same year and I usually did not use the chrono system presuming it was bad for the wear….and yes…it is nice to watch them running!!! PS: Is is possible that these kind of chronos and the Seikos could have suffered the Moon as Omega? they seem VERT tough…and even an usual Waltham chrono of an astronaut was used in the Moon with no problems because the glass of an Omega Speedmaster pop out during an EVA. A Rolex GMT Master was used inside the Apollo with almost 100% security too…and may be two more brands unauthorized by NASA: gracias!!!

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Sergio – both the Citizen and Seiko chronographs seem to be reliable and tough watches, so I suppose they would have been good enough for the Moon expeditions!!

      • sergiosaurio says:

        I so thank you Stephen!!! Ah!!! I presume Citizen owns Miyota.I have bought a “swiss” Junghans (not a fake) with an automatic Miyota movement visible through a glass back…it works amazingly well for less than U$S 30: is this Miyota 8215 with 21 jewels related to vintage Citizen movts? Gracias.

        • sweephand says:

          Hi Sergio – Miyota is a Citizen company, they supply many watch companies with the 8215 movement. It’s a very solid and reliable movement, and it is indeed related to the vintage Citizen movements, being the latest version of the 8200 automatic first produced around 1975.

          Stephen

  34. sergiosaurio says:

    Awe, so technically it like having a vintage Citizen movt? Is Miyota as old as Citizen? Swiss watches using Miyota seems to says that Miyota is good!!! gracias!!!

    • sweephand says:

      The first movements Citizen made under the Miyota name were produced in the late 1970s – the first 8215 was in 1977 I believe. So one of the earliest 8215s could be described as vintage 🙂

      Stephen

      • sergiosaurio says:

        Thank you Stephen. I have found that one of the astronauts on Skylab in the 70s wore an automatic Seiko chrono…I will search if any astronaut used a Citizen with my The Planetary Society and NASA friends.Cheers!!!

        • sweephand says:

          Hi Sergio – of course, I forgot to mention that in an earlier reply. Colonel Pogue’s gold dialled Seiko 6139 Chronograph made it into space 🙂

          Stephen

  35. sergiosaurio says:

    Awe!!! I have a Seiko 6139!!! and I work in Space Education!!! imagine the odds!!! thank you!!!

  36. sergiosaurio says:

    Pardon…actually I have one with an hour counter and double calendar…is 6139?

    • sweephand says:

      If your Seiko has one sub-dial it counts down minutes, so is a 6139. With two sub-dials it can count minutes and hours, so would be a 6138.

      Cool to hear you work in space education, especially today after the Mars landing 🙂

      Stephen

      • sergiosaurio says:

        *Sighs*, so technically my wach movt did not went to space…..but are similar…I presume…no? We are very happy!!! my best friends work at JPL and NASA HQ….

        • sweephand says:

          If your model is a Seiko 6138, then it is the same movement as the 6139, but with the extra sub-dial. Which model is it? (the model number will be 6138-????). I used to have three 6138s, but sold them when I decided to collect only vintage Citizens. They are great watches, large, solid and reliable. It must be cool having friends who work where yours do!! 🙂

  37. sergiosaurio says:

    Is one almost one like this with orange second hand

    http://www.pmwf.com/Watches/WatchSchool/WS19%20Servicing%20a%20SEIKO%206138%20Chronograph/WS%2019%20Servicing%20a%20SEIKO%206138.htm

    I love Citizens and Seikos…yes…after +30 years it works very well…with no service at all…:sighs:….yes, I have cool friends like you now !!! 😉 thank you!!

  38. sergiosaurio says:

    It is written in the back: 522200 Japan A 6138-8020 Stainless Steel….In the front left dial Japan 6138. In the right side of the dial -8040T…

  39. sergiosaurio says:

    Hello!!! MIne has “golden” inside, blacks subdials and tachymetre and orange second hand…so we almost had the same watch!!! how you know the date? amazing!!! I can not service them it in at least a year or two…as my chrono Citizen…should I stop them for years? they work very good!!! Gracias!!!

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Sergio – the production date of Seiko’s is the same as Citizen’s – as long as you know in which decade the watch was made. The 6138s / 6139s were made from the very late 1960s to the end of the 1970s, so ‘5’ at the beginning of the serial number (522200) can only mean 1975. The next number is ‘2’ so that means February. If the watch has never been serviced, or you don’t know whether it has, the advice is to get it serviced if you are wearing it frequently or daily. If you use it only now and again, and it’s running ok, say for special occasions, then that should be fine. That’s what I do with mine – I’ve not had any of them serviced yet since they only have very occasional use. Remember to leave the chrono running to reduce wear, and let them wind down with the chrono running so the tension on the mechanism is minimal when in the box / drawer.

      It was a shame I had to sell my 8020, I really like the design of them – but I stuck to my decision to collect only Citizens, and needed as much funding for that as I could get!! 🙂

  40. sergiosaurio says:

    I so thank you for your advice!!! yes…I hardly use them…may be 4 or 5 days/year…you did good because you needed funding for Citizens and your blog is so unique!!! I will look for vintage Citizens in Patagonia…most people use quartz watches here…and the new oil men rich, Rolex and SUV´s just to show off….thank you!!!!

  41. sergiosaurio says:

    Hello Stephen: I have an amazing slide rule vintage Citizen ana digi Wingman and I wrote down all the data of the front and back. Should I ask you? it is quartz…thank you!!!

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Sergio, the Wingman is indeed a quartz watch – I’m afraid I focus on the vintage mechanical and electro-mechanical models, before quartz technology took over so I can’t tell you much about it. I think the dating of yours will be the same as the older ones, providing you know which decade it is from. Do you know what movement it uses? I do have some quartz technical data so might find something in there.

      Stephen

  42. sergiosaurio says:

    Hello, yes, it is a vintage but quartz. Movm´t C080 – 088611 K Citizen Wingman World Time.
    01103991
    GN-4-S (all in the back)
    Front: Japan C080 and -087523KA…it works perfectly well…mineral glass and the best slide rule ever. The only problem is that the calendar goes from 1990 to not for more than 2003-2004 so I use a year with the same days as 2012….;) thank you!!!

  43. Sergey says:

    No. 00102478 INDICATES production in January 1980?
    WATCH SITEZEN 67-9119
    THANKS

  44. Chris says:

    Hello, I have just acquired a vintage watch and would love to know more about it, details as follows:

    The face reads – Citizen Automatic 21 Jewels 7 Super King
    The back reads – Stainless Steel Back 0-2812a Waterproof 80401092 1305 7 Automatic

    Many thanks in advance for your help.

    Regards,
    Chris

    • Chris says:

      Appologies, I forgot to add:

      The case reads – 18K GP 10 MICS

      Regards,
      Chris

      • sweephand says:

        Hi Chris, I’ve seen a few the Super King models and as far as I know at the moment, they were export models produced in the mid to late 1960s, using two types of movements. The earlier ones used the 4100 ‘Jet’ movement with its circular geared rotor, whilst the later ones used 5200 movements with the more conventional swinging weight type of rotor. I’ve seen 5240 and 5270 movements in Super Kings, part of the family of movements most commonly found in the Crystal Seven line. Given the markings on yours, and since it’s a 21 jewel model, I would guess it has a 52xx movement in it – if you are able to take the back off, you should be able to find the movement number stamped near the balance wheel.

        I reckon the Super King was an export model because they are marked ‘waterproof’ rather than ‘parawater’, and used the same model name even when different movements were used – i.e. rather than giving the later ones a new name or calling them ‘V2’s’.

        Yours is gold plated of course, with 10 microns of gold. The serial number – 80401092 gives a production date of April 1968. It couldn’t be a different year, because they weren’t made in 1958, and couldn’t be marked ‘waterproof’ in 1978. The other numbers on yours are a bit unusual – the 0-2812 could be the model number, but I’m not sure about the 1305, may be the case number. As a comparison here’s the back of a Crystal Seven from around the same time, where the model code is ACSS2812Y:

        http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/Sweephand/Crystal733jback-1.jpg

        Have you any photos of your watch? Although you can’t upload an image directly to the blog, you can post a link.

        Hope this helps,
        Stephen

  45. Chris says:

    I am unable to take the back off – I guess I need a special watch tool.

    I assume that the genuine leather strap is not the original and so I may replace.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8iOQkHFhQfFyizR1CbmDfteOIaCjPKaQJOIpnGw1eiA?feat=directlink

    I am having trouble trying to set the day – is there a special way? I can change the date and time by pulling out the crown and rotating (is it ok to wind the crown in either direction to change the time etc?)

    Chris

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Chris – thanks for the link to your photo – it’s a nice example. It looks very much like another one I’ve seen which uses the 52xx movement (5240 or 5270). Although the date is a ‘quick set’ mechanism as you know, the day is not. You set the day first, by winding the time forward through 12 o’clock with the crown pulled fully out to the time setting position (i.e. so the day may not change the first time you move the hands through 12 o’clock). As soon as the day changes wind backwards to around the 8 or 9 o’clock markers when the day should click into position again. Then wind forward through 12 o’clock and repeat until you have the right day. Then set the date – this is done last because the date moves on each time you move the day forward. Although you shouldn’t normally move hands backwards, the movement is designed to work this way so will cause no harm if all is well with the movement otherwise.

      Stephen

  46. Chris says:

    Hi Stephen – I just had a go a carrying out your instructions and in the process the crown came off – on screwing it back onto the threaded shaft it doesn’t grip screw enough for me to set the time going forward and just unscrews from the thread again – I will have to take it somewhere for a service in case I damage it?

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Chris – sorry to hear this 😦 I’ve had that happen too before now. Providing the thread isn’t stripped it should be an easy thing to get the crown on nice and tight, perhaps with a bit of ‘loctite’ to ensure it holds well. But of course the stem needs to be removed from the movement so if you haven’t got the case opener etc. to do it yourself a decent watch repairer should be able to do it pretty quickly, without a service if it’s otherwise running well. There’s always a risk when using and working on a watch that is 40+ years old of course – do you know a good watch repairer? (i.e. someone who works on mechanicals, rather than just changing batteries and sending them off somewhere)

      Stephen

  47. Ulli says:

    Great site about Citizen watches. I have one for which I would like to have some more information. It is in good condition and works accurately. It is a seven Star V2, 25 juwels, it has date (in German language) and day at the 3 o clock position. It is an automatic watch but can be wind by hand too. On the back:
    CITIZEN AUTOMATIC GN-3-5 PARAWATER
    GP
    4-721136 T
    10900402
    67-4125
    Please can you give me more technical information (movement, water resistance to which depth?) when the watch was made? Many Thanks,
    Ulli

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Ulli,

      thanks for your comments, much appreciated 🙂

      And thanks for the information about your watch. The Seven Star V2’s were introduced in 1969, and were a good, medium grade watch using the 72xx movements, running at 21,600 beats per hour. They replaced the earlier Seven Star models which used the 52xx movements, which ran at 18,000 bph. Your watch is from September 1971 (from the first three digits in the serial number – ‘109’). Gold plated V2 models similar to yours in the 1971 catalog retailed at about JPY16,000, slightly more than the cheapest of the high beat Leopards.

      The 72xx movements were made with 21,23,24,25,26 and 28 jewels – some of them were used in high beat Leopard models running at 28,800 and 36,000 beats per hour. Yours is 25 jewels so has the 7290 or 7291 movement, which as you know is an automatic with hand winding – as far as I know the 7290/1 also ‘hacks’ (i.e. stops when the crown is pulled out fully). Is that the case with yours?

      The case is marked ‘Parawater’ which Citizen used rather than waterproof, before all watch manufacturers had to change to water ‘resistant’ in the early 1970s, so yours is one of the last models to be marked that way. As far as I know with no depth rating on the watch, ‘parawater’ would have meant ok for swimming. The first parawater watch was floated across part of the Pacific to test it! As a vintage piece I would recommend that you now don’t get the watch wet at all!

      Here’s a link to the 72xx Family Tree, where you can find your movement and see where it fits in: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.netherwood/72Leopard&SevenStarFamilyTreeSecure.pdf

      Stephen

  48. Ulli says:

    Hi Stephen,
    thank you very much for your fast and detailed reply. And thanks for the movement family tree, great work. Indeed this watch stops if the crown is fully pulled. This allows to start the watch running at a well defined time. It is a gold plated model which my grandfather used daily for nearly 20 years without any repair needed. Realy good quality! And it still works today. Accuracy is quite good, the deviation per day is about 1 min, it is a little delay. Thanks for the hint not to get it wet!
    Best wishes
    Ulli

    • sweephand says:

      You’re welcome Ulli – and it’s good to hear you have a watch that has a long history in your own family. One to cherish 🙂

      All the best,
      Stephen

  49. Remco says:

    This is great. I just found out that I’m the owner of a Citizen “Speedy” chronograph.
    I bought it second hand at a watxh specialist some 20 years ago. It has never missed a beat since I’ve got it. Great watch but I would like to know some things. How old is it. Was it an expensive watch in those days and is it a rare watch? I have never seen a second one like
    mine anyway. Hope you can help me.
    Thanks in advance!

    The back has the following numbers: 4-901207 TA, 70202241, GN-4WS, 67-9313.

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Remco,

      good to see you have a ‘speedy’ style Citizen 🙂 Yours was made in February 1977 (from the first three digits in the serial number – ‘702’). It was a fairly expensive watch in its day, since they have impressive specifications on top of being a mechanical chronograph – i.e. high-beat, hand winding as well as automatic, and of course they have the ‘flyback’ feature. The definition of ‘rare’ is contentious, so I would say that these, especially in good condition, are not exactly common! You’re very unlikely to bump into someone else wearing one of these….

      They were made with black or white dials – which one do you have? – and are often called ‘speedy’ because the look somewhat like the iconic Omega Speedmaster. If you’ve not done so already, take a look at my reference article on the chronographs, including the ‘speedy’: https://sweep-hand.org/citizens-vintage-chronographs/

      Stephen

      • Remco says:

        This is great! Thank you for the info. The seller back then, thougt is was an early 70’s model. Turns out it’s only 2 years older than my wife. (this watch looks gorgeous when she wears it, but that maybe has something to do with me having a heavy softspot for women wearing men’s chronographs?)
        I own a silver one with a black leather strap. Not in a pristine state but with a new glass it will look the business again. Didn’t know there was a black one too. The black watch looks certainly similar to one of my favorites the Omega Speedmaster.
        For a long time i was saving money to buy the Omega until a local jeweler showed a big interest in my Speedy and told me to think twice, because, according to him, the Citizen’s were redicilous good

        • sweephand says:

          You’re welcome Remco, glad to be of some help. Might get my wife to wear the ‘speedy’ now 🙂

          Nice to hear that the jeweller saw the quality of the Citizen back then.

          Stephen

  50. Gustavo says:

    Hola Como están? hoy me regalaron un reloj Citizen, y guao estoy encantado. Lo malo es que esta un poco atropellado por la larga vida del reloj. Me pueden decir de que año es. Gracias
    4-901134 k
    0100 01 14
    GN – 4W -S
    67- 9143
    JAPAN
    BLG

    • sweephand says:

      Hola Gustavo, su reloj se hizo en octubre de 1980. De la información en el reverso de la caja tiene un negro ‘Challenge Timer’ (‘bullhead’) con un bisel de oro y el dial. Estas fueron hechas entre 1972 y principios de los 1980s

      Gracias por visitar mi blog, espero que sea de utilidad para usted,

      Stephen

  51. I have a CITIZEN 67-9356 Chronograph,a good old reliable friend. And…somehow the knob that you wind it up has lost its worm(inside the nut). Is it possible to get similar-one or fix it any means? It has marking CTZ on the top. I have thought to fill the worn-out tube some way,drill it and make a new worm, but I dont know the type of that worm. If I could possibly get a similar knob(old repair part), that would be also OK. Otherwise the watch is in perfect condition, and I`d like to have some advise to buy such an item,or some advise to fix it, also a 2mm diameter O-ring that fits in to seal to avoid the humidity to rech the inner parts. Now I can`t send a picture, but it will follw. I would be happy with any kind of information to get my watch `walking´again. Yours sincerely: Jari Vehviläinen FINLAND

  52. Guida says:

    Love your blog !!

  53. Florian says:

    Your blog is perfect! Gives me some new ideas and a lot of useful information. I also have q question: I have 6 Citizen Chronos with the 8110A movement. Two 67-9119, and four 67-9313 “Speedys”, two of them each in black and white. One of the main differences between the four speedies is the day wheel. I have two with a german/english version. One with an english/portuguese version (where I noticed a little “P” on the wheel, which you can only see while changing the language. It’s while you hold the button pressed – when you release it, its hidden again.) And I have one of them with an english/?arabic? day wheel. At least I can see some nice curves and dots in an foreign language, and the little “hint” says “K”. Do you maybe know, which language this is? Or is there some information out there, how many different language versions exist? would be happy to learn more…

    all the best
    Florian

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Florian, good to hear that my blog is useful 🙂 You have 4 speedies? nice!!

      The day wheels on the Speedy models came in 7 combinations, all with English + German, French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Saudi Arabic or Numerals (Roman). They are the combinations listed in 1977 so I guess there could have been others. The list, which is an original Citizen parts catalog – also suggests that the Portuguese one has numerals as well (I think this means numbers 1 to 7 alongside the day). Is that the case with yours?

      Stephen

      • JAY48 says:

        Hi Stephen,
        I’d like to add a detail; the 9313 black dialed watch I received as a donor had a white Kanji day/date wheel. I’m unsure if the original was swapped sometime in its life, but thought I’d let you know.
        It’s currently at my watchmaker’s but I’ll email you a photo when I receive it. I’m going to swap it with my 67-9119’s Portuguese wheel as Kanji fonts look cooler!
        Regards,
        Jay.

        • sweephand says:

          Hi Jay, I would have thought that the 8110a models would have been produced with Kanji / English day wheels, for the Japanese domestic market. It may be that the catalog I have (which is printed in English) was for export models.

          Cheers,}
          Stephen

  54. Florian says:

    Hi Stephen, thanks for your quick answer! And yes, the Portuguese has red numbers in front of the day in black but only from 2 SEG (=segundo feirera, which means second day I think, that is Monday) till 6 SEX (=sexta feirera = Friday). Saturday and Sunday are only a red dot in front and written like: • SAB and • DOM.

    Florian

  55. Florian says:

    You’re welcome 🙂 I just noticed, that I have do add a small correction: Only SUN/• DOM is written in red, SAT/•SAB of course in black. Some other slight detail I noticed, taking a closer look at the English/Arabic day wheel: Apparently in the Islamic/Arabian world Saturday is the holiday. Because this one is written in red, whereas Sunday is written in black…

    Florian

  56. Tony says:

    beautiful article, thanks!

  57. Pingback: How to buy a 1970s Citizen Challenge Timer "Bullhead" 8110A holy grail

  58. Roberto says:

    Hi Stephen
    what can I say ? Just a great article on wristwatch too often forgotten from many of us. I recentely have had a Walter Wolf Racing as a gift from a friend and reading your notice on this kinda watch I ‘ ve noted a little mistake just on the number on the dial. It seems to me, at least, looking the dial number of mine……8110 – 901301 – Y. So who’s right ? yours or mine ?
    Thanks a lot for your answer.
    Roberto

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Roberto, thank you for your comments.

      And thank you for pointing out a typo – in fact when I checked the article I had also made a mistake on the case number for the titanium Walter Wolf too! Here’s the reference pic I used for the dial code, looks to be 901310, but I have another pic where it is 901301 like yours, and I have also now seen your number on another example. Does this dial look exactly like yours or can you see any differences? (I don’t own one of these myself):

      Wolf

      Stephen

  59. Roberto says:

    Hi Stephen
    tanks for your reply. I’ve just seeen the pic of the Walter Wolf in this note but it seems to me there is no differences with the dial of my Walter Wolf except for the dial number. If you would send me your e-mail i will send the pic of my watch.
    Tanks a lot again
    Roberto

  60. Excelent blog! Thank you for all the info!
    Could you please tell me about the manufacturing date of a Bullhead Octagon Citizen? It is serial no 81200xxx Is it ’78 or ’88? It is in almost perfect condition. Looks too good to be so old. I had four more Bullheads, and i love Octagon. I have one more Octagon.

  61. And the engaraving, and the details… all looks to be slightly updated from the ’80 model i have. It would be unreal to be from 78! The case looked like it was not opened before, the movement is in perfect order (i will have it serviced soon), no scratches, no screwdrivers marks. The crown is the only thing that i dont think it fits (it is shorter).

    • sweephand says:

      I don’t have any info on just when production of the 8110 chronographs ended but I still think it could be from 1978. I have a mint 67-9038 and other unmarked pieces from the 1970s, so it is very possible for a watch from that time to still be in very good condition 🙂

      Have you any photos of your other watch that you could post a link to?

      Stephen

  62. sweephand says:

    Thanks, that is very good of you, looking forward to seeing them both together 🙂

    Stephen

  63. JAY48 says:

    Wow, the good Doctor’s Octo was a minter!

  64. Only two crappy i phone pictures for now, in the first picture the first watch is the watch i wrote about and the second is my old watch.

    In this second picture, the first caseback is my old watch and the second watch is my new one. There are some diferences in the engraving. The finishing is not original on the old watch.

    • The movement is similar in both but with bolder fonts on the new one on the rotor. Also the fonts are bolder on the date-day wheals on the new one.

      • sweephand says:

        Thanks for the photos Doc, they aren’t too bad at all for a phone 🙂 There are different styles of case back, and sometimes a more modern looking one is from an earlier production date. I still think 1988 is too late for one of these, so I reckon your ‘new’ one is 1978 and your ‘old’ one is from 1980.

        Stephen

  65. Thank you again for all the information! Your work is outstanding and i find it a true inspiration! regards!

  66. sweephand says:

    Thank you Doc, your comments are much appreciated 🙂

  67. Roberto says:

    Hi Stephen
    just because I consider you a citizen’s wizard I’m asking if you can hepl me. Here’s the quesion about a case back. I’m just looking an octagonal bullhead and it seems definitely all ok but there
    is something on the back case that let me in doubt. On the pic of this case back I have remarked this group of numbers:
    CITIZEN WATHC . Co
    WATER RESIST
    STAINLESS
    4-824764 Y
    560332
    GN-4-S
    JAPAN
    It’s an old case one or it’s a fake one ? Thank you for your reply
    Roberto

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Roberto, thank you for your comments. I’m afraid that looks like the wrong case back for the octagonal bullhead. it should be marked with the model number, 67-9356, and the case number – 4-901223. The case number on yours {4-824764} looks like it is from an 8200 automatic. Have you got a link to any photos?

      Stephen

      • Roberto says:

        Hi Stephen thanks a lot for your reply but don’t worry I was just on the way tu buy it .
        I was sure that this case back wosn’t for the bullhead so after all . . . . is better asking than spending 🙂 I will take the pic of that wacht and I’ send you later. Bye for now and thanks again.
        Roberto

  68. Roberto says:

    Hi Stephen , I’ve just got from e-bay another wrist watch Citizen 67-9119 with a particular and interesting gray dial. have ever seen a 67-9119 with that particular dial ? Just in case of affermativ reply can you tell me the exact colour of the crono hands ? I will send you later the pic of this watch. Thanks indeed. Roberto

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Roberto,
      I have seen these with grey dials, but I thought that these were originally black and had faded. The only dial code I have for these is 901077 – is this the same as your grey dial? The original chrono hands are orange – see this catalog pic from 1973:

      Interested in seeing a pic or two 🙂

      Stephen

      • Roberto says:

        Hi Stephen it seeems to me the dial has the same numbers 901077 but written in white and to be honest it doesn’t seem a black faded one. Anyway i’m planning to find out a new dial one just to replace the one on this watch and of course a new set of hands. Were do I find a new dial for this watch? Can you help me ? I’ll send you the picsssss 🙂 . Thanks indeed .
        Roberto

        • sweephand says:

          Hi Roberto – thanks for e-mailing the pics 🙂 I’ve answered your questions in my reply to your e-mail message,

          Stephen

          • adrian licu says:

            Hi Stephen,

            Do you know if 67-9119 also comes with completely white hands (all of them)?

            Regards,
            Adrian

            • sweephand says:

              Hi Adrian – I’ve not seen any original / catalog images of the 67-9119 with all white hands. At least not so far! It’s possible of course that genuine Citizen parts have been used to replace those that were first fitted if they have faded or lost paint over time.

              Stephen

              • adrianlicu says:

                Hi Stephen, seller just confirmed that hands were repainted so I think I will pass on this one. It seems harder and harder to find one in good original condition these days. Thank you again for all the info!

  69. goldtek says:

    Hi Steven, I just bought a Citizen watch on ebay, not that I know much at all about Citizen watches, this is my first actually. I think I’m very fortunate to have found a blog dedicated to their vintage automatics. I was wondering if you could help me date it, or if it even has the correct case back, etc.?

    Assuming the case back is correct, the stamping is as follows:

    Citizen Watch Co.
    water resist
    stainless
    4-842083 HST
    87611
    GN-4-S
    Japan

    The front is marked:

    Citizen
    Automatic

    21 Jewels
    Japan Made

    If you would prefer photos I can certainly send you some.

    Any help would be appreciated!

    Wayne Goldsmith

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Wayne – thanks for the information about your watch. First off, I wonder if you have made a typo error in the case number – should it read 4-824083? That would be more likely than 4-842083, since I would guess your watch has the 21 jewel 8200 automatic movement in it, which often have a 4-82xxxx case number. The 8200 movement was first used around 1975, but it has been in production ever since, so dating models which use this is a little tricky. The serial number (87611) is used to date the watch, although I don’t recall seeing a serial with only 5 digits, usually they have at least 6. The first two digits are the important ones – ‘8’ gives the year, but we need to know the decade when it was made. The shorter serial number suggests it is post 1980, so it could be 1988, or even 1998. The second digit – ‘7’ – indicates a July production month. Photos would be helpful – you can’t post them directly here, but if you can post a link then I could take a look.

      Stephen

  70. You are very correct sir, case number is indeed 4-824083. Also, serial number is 6 digits as you thought, 876111. Still finding my iPad keyboard a little tricky, sorry about that.

  71. goldtek says:

    Thanks very much for helping me out with this!

  72. k_sze says:

    There is something I don’t understand about the dials of these bullheads. The 8110A beats at 28800 bph, right? That’s 4 Hz. So why are the dials marked at 1/5 subdivisions?

  73. Alex says:

    Hi , I have one of the bull-heads. I just got it and was surprised that manual winding never stops. Is it a feature or spring is broken? However watch is running. I would appreciate your comment on this feature. Thanks, Alex

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Alex, that’s fine – that’s how auto’s with hand winding are:

      Automatic watches have a clutch that disengages the winding mechanism. No matter how long you wind it for, it can not be ‘over wound’ or damaged, as a manual watch can. Turning the crown forward 15-20 times for women’s watches and 20-30 times for men’s watches will give you an idea when the movement is fully loaded

      Stephen

    • k_sze says:

      Noob question: how do you manually wind it? Mine arrived today (67-9356) and I can’t figure out how it works. I got the date and day quick set though.

      • k_sze says:

        Do I just turn the crown without pulling it out? I tried that and I think I can feel the resistance build up.

        • sweephand says:

          Hi k_sze, that’s correct, you can wind the watch when the crown is in the normal running position. Unlike a manual watch, as it’s an automatic you find that the crown will keep rotating even when fully wound. It’s not really necessary to wind them fully by hand though, it’s more useful just to get them going and then they’ll get fully powered up when being worn.

          The fly-back button is a bit harder to push than the stop / start button on a few of my chronographs – maybe it’s because it’s a function that hasn’t been used as often. If it’s very difficult to operate I’d suggest it’s looked at in case some damage could be caused by the force you’d have to use. It may just be that the gasket has dried up and there may be some dirt in there which is causing it.

          You may know this already, but it’s best to leave the chrono running given the design of the 8110a movement – reduces the wear on the mechanism. Which is also nice because you always see the second hand sweeping round 🙂

          Stephen

      • k_sze says:

        Thanks for the confirmation. That puts me more at ease. I brought the watch to the local watchmaker for a full inspection anyway, just in case.

        I intend to keep the chronograph running, too. By starting it at the right time, I get to use it like a GMT. 😛

  74. k_sze says:

    Another question: is it normal for the flyback pusher to be stiff (i.e. hard to activate)? On my 67-9356, the start/stop pusher is rather ok, but the flyback pusher is quite stiff. I have to push hard to activate it. I’ve seen a video or two of the 8110 in action on YouTube, and I *think* the flyback pusher is also stiff in the videos. But I have never owned any mechanical chronograph before, so I’m not sure.

  75. Carlos says:

    Hi Stephen,

    I have found a Citizen in a bunch of old familiar stuff. Its details are:

    CITIZEN
    4-901207 TA
    60901214
    GN-4W-S
    67-9313

    What can you explain me about it? How old it is? I like it very much but it is really worthwhile to take it to a watchmaker for its reshaping?

    Thank you very much for your assistance.
    Greetings.

    Carlos Castellano
    MADRID

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Carlos, thank you for visiting my blog. You have made a good find 🙂 The model (67-9313) you have found is often called the ‘Speedy’ and is one of the most sought after vintage Citizen watches. Two versions were made in the 1970s, with black or white dials:


      Which one do you have?

      Yours was made in September 1976 (from ‘609’ in the serial number, 60901214). The 8110A movement in these is a fine calibre, running at 28,800 beats per hour and as well as the usual chronograph functions it also has ‘fly-back’ which means the chronograph can be instantly zero’d and re-started. It is an automatic of course that can also be hand wound, and the date and day both have ‘quick-set’ mechanisms.

      Does your watch run and does the chronograph work? And are the case / dial / bezel in decent condition? If so I would have thought it is definitely worth having it serviced. If spare parts are needed it will be much harder to sort out or if the case / crystal is badly worn / damaged, maybe a donor movement would be needed, so would not be a simple job. Also be careful to find a watchmaker who is comfortable working on chronographs, and preferably someone who is familiar with the 8110a movement.

      Have you any pics of the watch? If so it would be good to see your watch – although you can’t post them here yourself, you could add a link to where they are uploaded.

      Stephen

      • Carlos says:

        Dear Stephen, first of all i would like to thank your prompt response. You are ver kind.
        My watch is similar to the second one (white dial) but with slight differences (for instance, the small hand of the chronogrpahs (seconds 10, 20, 30) are silver not black.
        I took my watch to a watchmaker (Citizen Approved Service Center here in Madrid) and I am looking forward to receive an estimation of repair (it works but among others, the below small hand is loose, the lower pushbutton does not work and does not transport the small second to the 12 o´clock position).

        As soon as I heard from them I will inform you and will post a photo of it.

        Thanking again your assistance, I remain.

        Carlos

        • sweephand says:

          Hi Carlos, you’re welcome 🙂 I will be interested to hear what the Service Centre say, I din’t think they would repair one of these vintage pieces. I think the small hands should be black, they have probably lost their paint over the years, I’ve seen many that have lost at least some of it. I look forward to hearing from you again, and seeing photos too.

          Stephen

      • marcelo re says:

        yo tengo el color todo blanco
        modelo 679313

  76. MIGUEL DE CARLO says:

    QUISIERA COMPRARME ALGÚN MODELO DE ESTOS. ¿COMO DEBO HACER? SOY SEGUIDOR DE LA MARCA CITIZEN Y ME GUSTARÍA TENER ALGUNO DE ESTOS MODELOS. GRACIAS ESPERO SU RESPUESTA

    • sweephand says:

      Hola, gracias por visitar mi blog. Aunque no hay nada para la venta aquí, si usted está interesado en la compra de un vintage reloj Citizen, entonces eBay es probablemente el mejor lugar para empezar.

      Stephen

  77. Roberto says:

    Hi Stephen
    I’ve finally got the octagonal bull head. On my opinion it’s all ok. Numbers, dial code, hand’s color and also the back case seems all original. I would like to send you as soon as possible some pics of this watch just to have your opinion on it. Stay well and bye for now. Roberto

  78. Roberto says:

    Hi again Stephen
    I’ve another question for you. Are you involved only in Citizen watch or are you able to answer me about a Seiko question ? This is the story. I’ve found in the middle of the “garbage” in my lab an old dial certeinly marked seiko with this number on : japan 6210-9207 T-AD. As the numbers on the dial are showing me this is probably an old seiko 6210 movement so i went on the net looking for some news about it. Incredible!! No way to have any info about it. Can you help me in this case ?
    Any info will be much appreciated.
    Thanks indeed
    Roberto

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Roberto,
      I did collect some Seikos a few years ago before I focused on Citizen, but I don’t know what this dial is from. I’ll see if I can find out for you though 🙂

      Stephen

      • Roberto says:

        Thank you very much Stephen I hope you will be able to resolve this little question 🙂
        Roberto

    • sweephand says:

      Hi again Roberto – can I just check that it is definitely 6210, or is it 6201, which I know is a vintage Seiko movement? A couple of people have queried this since they don’t know of a ‘6210’.

      Stephen

  79. Roberto says:

    Well just to take off any doubt I will immediately send you via e-mail the dial’s pic. OK?

  80. ALBERTO says:

    Congratulations on this blog! I own a 67-9631, which I just bought practically new. It worked fine when bought but I have some problems. The watch stops now and then, even when on use. Any recomendation? Every automatic watch I know can be wind up to “jump start” it, but I dont find you can wind up the crown on this Citizen. Is this right? Thanks in advance for any help, Alberto from Argentina

  81. Pratik says:

    Hi Stephen,

    After posting about the citizen Homer on your other thread, I have another query.This time its concerning a Gold plated bullhead I’m contemplating buying.
    I saw the seller’s pics but am not very convinced about the style in which the case-back is engraved. I mean it almost looks like someone else has engraved the case-back to make the details confirm to the watch model. All the details confirm that it is indeed the right case-back for a GPB., but is the case-back itself authentic?

    Can you have a look below and comment on the watch case-back/dial/marker’s authenticity?

    Regards,
    Pratik

    cb3

    caseback

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Pratik, I think that the case back is correct, although it has a serious number of tool marks on it! The engraving on some of these is relatively crude – for example here is the back of mine:

      The case / bezel and dial look ok although the second hand has been repainted a little crudely and not in the original colour. One thing I’m not sure about on this model, and mine in fact, is whether they originally came with white day and date wheels as well as black ones. I suspect they did but I can’t be sure until I find original ads or brochures showing them.

      Personally I’d be a bit worried by all those tool marks on the case back – why would it have been opened up so often, and in a rather careless way?

      Stephen

  82. Marc says:

    Hi Stephen,

    Looking to purchase a Bullhead but a bit hesitant as I have noticed that this specific timepiece: 67-9011 Bullhead with the case number 4-901053 comes with a dial code 901069, would it be possible that this is all original and not a mismatch parts put together? Thanks. Great article by the way, I have learned a lot about Citizen’s awesome auto chronographs.

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Marc,
      thanks for visiting my blog and I’m glad the chronograph page is useful to you 🙂

      You’ll have seen that at the moment I’ve only been able to verify that case number 4-901053 is found on the other ‘bullhead’ with the black tachymeter ring. But that was one of two case numbers on those, so it is possible in my view that the case was used on the version you are looking at, with the silver tachy ring and blue & white highlighted sub-register. The cases appear to be the same, with case code ‘SSB’ indicating the black bezel and “steel” case. If the one you are looking at appears correct in every other way, then it may well be that the case number is also correct. Here’s a scan of Citizen’s catalog pic of this watch, from 1973, for reference – note it’s the other case number though:

      Stephen

  83. Glen Melvin.G says:

    Im looking for vintage citizen tachymeter model 4-901177 k case number.pls let me know if available…. im looking this in rememberance of my late dad

  84. MIGUEL DE CARLO says:

    HOLA: TENGO UN CRONOMETRO CITIZEN CATÁLOGO: 67-9119, LO CONSEGUÍ DESPUÉS DE MUCHO BUSCARLO, PERO NO CONSIGO LA MALLA ORIGINAL. ME PODRÍAN SUGERIR LA MANERA DE HACERLO. SOY FANÁTICO DE LA MARCA Y NO ME GUSTA TENER ALGO QUE NO SEA ORIGINAL. DESDE YA GRACIAS Y ESPERO SU SUGERENCIA.
    HASTA SIEMPRE

    • sweephand says:

      Hola Miguel,
      Me temo que será difícil encontrar una pulsera original para los 67-9119. He visto que el tipo correcto en eBay una vez o dos veces, que tiene centros de negros en los enlaces, como este en mi ejemplo:

      Otra opción podría ser tratar de encontrar una correa de cuero negro cónico como este original, aunque no estoy seguro dónde encontrarás uno así – creo que es una combinación muy agradable:

      Una alternativa podría ser uno de los otros brazaletes ciudadano originales usados en su Cronógrafo. Aunque originalmente no fue cabido a los 67-9119 cuanto sé, podría ser más fácil de encontrar, como el de este 67-9054:

      Stephen

  85. Pingback: Interesting eBay Citizen finds

  86. Adrian Licu says:

    Hello,

    First of all, thank you for all this useful info. This site is basically like 75% of all the Internet information you can find about Bullheads.

    I just wanted to make sure I understood this right: “it is advised to leave the chronograph function running to minimise wear”. Does this means that we should just leave the chrono moving all the time to avoid wear? Seems strange that you have to use this function to keep it in shape. Is this something you’ve done with your citizens all the time? Does this also affect the power reserve?

    Thank you,
    Adrian

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Adrian, thanks for visiting my blog and for your comments. The design of the 8110A and 8100A chronograph movements is similar to the Seiko 6138’s and 6139’s – they have a ‘vertical clutch’ which can be left running since it minimises wear. I’m not a watch maker / technician so I have learned this from others. For example, here’s a quote from a thread in the old SCWF:

      The chrono mechanism is engaged by means of a vertical clutch. The clutch is a superior means of engaging the chrono as it provides for a soft but positive feel.
      When the chrono is OFF, the two clutch plates are constantly lightly brushing each other, but do not turn together. When the chrono is engaged (chrono ON) the clutch plates are pressed harder together, and turn as one. Because there is no slippage (and therefore less wear) with the chrono ON, this is the recommended default mode. The vertical clutch is also known as the chrono runner assembly

      The nice thing about this, imho, is that you always see the second hand moving 🙂 I leave the chrono function on when I wear my chronographs, and as far as I know it doesn’t affect the power reserve.

      Stephen

  87. Adrian Licu says:

    Again me:) From the comments on the above link (don’t know if I am allowed to post other site comments here, so feel free to remove it if necessary):

    ==================

    “Al, what are your thoughts on leaving the chronograph running on the two Seiko vertical clutch movements? I’ve read on some of the Japanese watch forums that it is actually recommended to leave them running and use the chrono hand as more-or-less of a seconds hand. They go on to say that there is less friction and wear to the movement with the chrono running. Is this true?”

    Yes, to a point. As I explained above, when the chronograph is turned off, the two parts of the chronograph runner have friction between them, since the large wheel must turn for the movement to run, and the chronograph hand does not move. Running the chronograph eliminates the friction between those 2 parts, but adds other loads such as the friction between the 2 ends of the shaft that the chronograph hand is attached to (one end in a jewel, the other in the tube of the center wheel). Also, there is the added load of the minute counter ticking over. Not sure I would say off or on has the most load – I would have to have the watch on the timing machine and measure the balance amplitude in both cases to confirm if one has more load (and lower balance amplitude) than the other.

    But one thing you need to do with these is to run them with the chronograph off at least every so often. This will help prevent the chronograph runner parts from seizing together.

    ==================

    So it seems it is better to use both modes (chrono off and on), changing from time to time so you spread the wear and also avoid the two wheels to seize together permanently.

    Power reserve is also discussed and it seems that the impact of the chronograph is very small, especially in the vertical assembly.

    Regards,
    Adrian

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Adrian,
      thanks for the links and quote, no problem about posting them here, it all helps to get as much information and advice together as possible 🙂

      The comments about sometimes running the watch with the chrono off to avoid the clutch wheels seizing is very useful. Your conclusion that running with it off, at least occasionally, rather than with it on ALL the time seems absolutely correct.

      Thanks for taking the trouble to research this and post the results. I will do a post later to draw people’s attention to the information.

      Stephen

  88. Jonathan says:

    Hi, have just acquired the following watch and would appreciate your assessment.
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141173192151
    Regards
    Jonathan

  89. Jose Luis says:

    Buenas noches, solo para dar la enhorabuena por la página. Un trabajo excelente.
    Tengo en estos momentos reparando este modelo de reloj comprado por mi en 1975.
    Saludos.

    • sweephand says:

      Hola Jose, gracias por visitar mi blog y por sus amables comentarios. Es bueno saber que tienes un cronógrafo original. ¿Tienes alguna foto que puede vincular a?

      Hello Jose, thank you for visiting my blog, and for your kind comments. It is good to hear that you have an original chronograph. Do you have any photos that you can link us to?

      Stephen

  90. Savvopoulos says:

    Hi Stephen, interesting to read all the comments reg. the different watches. I have a citizen, my dad bought it to me 03/1973, I still remember. I do not have the watch strap (SS). Do you have an idea where to get it. Here the tech. Details:
    4-820754 Y
    70700307
    GN-4-5 or S
    51-0351 or S1-0351
    Thanks for your comments
    Iordanis

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Iordanis, thanks for visiting my blog. From the serial number, 70700307, your watch was made in July 1977. Do you think that was the year your dad bought it for you, or maybe March 1978? The 8200 automatic movement used in your watch was first made around 1975. Unfortunately I don’t have any original images of the watch to see what kind of bracelet it came on. It may be possible to find a bracelet on eBay, perhaps on another 8200 watch, but it’s probably going to be very hard to find an exact match and one with the correct end pieces (that fit into the lugs). It’s great to hear that you still have your watch and I hope it is still running well.

      Stephen

  91. Iordanis Savvopoulos says:

    Hi Stephen, thanks for your quick response. You may be right. How can I send you pictures? Regards Iordanis

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Iordanis, you can’t post a pic here directly but you could post a link to somewhere like Photobucket. Or I can email you (I see visitors’ email addresses so no need for you to post it) and you could send pics to me – let me know if you’d like me to do that
      Stephen

      • Iordanis Savvopoulos says:

        Hi Stephen, where to srnd the pictures?
        Can you srnd me your email address?
        Thanks
        iordanis

        • sweephand says:

          Hi Iordanis, email sent 🙂
          Stephen

        • sweephand says:

          Here are pics of Iordanis’s watch that he kindly sent me. It’s an early 8200 automatic, from July 1977 (I know that from both the serial number, and because it’s listed in Citizen’s 1977 casing parts guide):

          The case back gives us the production date from the serial number (first three digits),

          All the info we’d expect to see is on the back – case number, model number and case type. What it doesn’t tell us is what the original bracelet looked like! And this is what Iordanis is after – if you know the model or have any pics with bracelet, please let us know.

          Stephen

  92. Kurazaybo says:

    Hi, I really appreciate your site. My first “real” watch was a Citizen Automatic Eagle 7, a gift from my father. So it holds a special place in my heart. I am currently looking for a 8110 watch, so I found this page. I jjust want to say that the bph data for the movement maybe should be included in the specifications of the movement more prominently (we get very specific info about the size, which I as a watch collector do not consider too relevant, for example) and the bracelet width. I don’t know the width of the bracelet at this moment, are bracelets interchangeable between all models? Do all models have blind lug holes?

    I don’t mean to be the guy pinting mistakes or ommisions, but it’s info I would find useful in my search.

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Kurazaybo, thanks for visiting my blog. Good to hear that you have owned an Eagle 7 from new, especially as a gift from your father 🙂 No problem about the points you raise – I always seem to miss out the case and lug measurements! I may have misunderstood your point about the beat rate, but that is given in the first paragraph of the article.

      I haven’t got an example of every 8110A model in my collection, but as far as I know they all have 18mm lug widths and all have blind lug holes (I understand that to mean that they are not drilled all the way through the lug, as in older watches). Not all of the bracelets are interchangeable – for example the 67-9054 and 67-9151 bracelets, although they look similar, do not fit 67-9011 and 67-9119 models correctly – although the lug width is the same, the bracelet itself is too wide. Most of the models have straight end links, but the 67-9313 ‘Speedy’ has curved ones. Do you have a specific model in mind, so we can check out their particular requirements and level of interchangeability?
      Stephen

      • Kurazaybo says:

        Thank you for your kind reply. I found one very similar to this one, I belive it may be the exact same model http://www.thewatchsite.com/15-vintage-watch-review-reviews-vintage-japanese-watches/7157-my-review-citizen-8110-flyback-chronograph.html with what I think is the original bracelet. I’m surprised to see the lugs are 18mm, mi eagle 7 is 20mm and already feels quite thin.

        • sweephand says:

          You’re welcome 🙂 Although I haven’t got one in my collection, the octagonal bullhead is, in my opinion, the best of the bullhead range. It’s the only bullhead made completely of stainless steel – the others are base metal, with coating or plating on some models.

          18mm lugs were typical back in the day, there were very few Citizens with wider lugs than that. It’s not so noticeable on this and a few other models, since the bracelet widens to match the case at the lug ends. I don’t know which bracelets are interchangeable – I wonder if one from the 67-9054 would fit…

          Stephen

  93. funky punky says:

    Hi Stephen,
    When i received my Citizen Bullhead watch from my mother that was bought by my father in 1980 , i would like to make a search about my watch and i came accross to your blog. It is full of with useful information. I was using my bullhead long time ago when i was a teen and after i felt it from my hands while i was charging :), it was broken a little bit and was put in somewhere. I really forgot my precious Citizen Bullhead until i received it back. It has arabic and english dates.

    I sent it to an experience watch master after a long search, hopefully he will fix the problems. Below you could see my watch before the repair and i will share the after photos as well when i receive it.

    http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/funkypunkytr/media/citizen%20bullhead%2067-9011/photo-3_zps49d54322.jpg.html

    http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/funkypunkytr/media/citizen%20bullhead%2067-9011/photo-4_zpsd8231c8a.jpg.html

  94. dfkafka says:

    I finally took the plunge and bought a Citizen Chronograph, I ended up with the square gold dial version. Everything on the watch works perfectly except the fly back function, which the seller neglected to tell me about. I was wondering do you know if this is a simple fix? or is going to cost an arm and a leg to get the fly back working again?

    • sweephand says:

      Hi, do you mean this one, the 67-9071: It’s naughty of the seller not to tell you about the fly-back not working. This is a key feature of the 8110 movement which sets it apart from others. It would be a good reason for a refund on a ‘not as described’ basis if it wan’t disclosed. I’m not a watch techie but the fly-back not working suggests it needs new parts, and along with a service it would not be cheap to fix by a reputable repairer who has knowledge of this movement, providing the part(s) can be sourced.

      Stephen

      • dfkafka says:

        That’s the one that I bought. It’s really too bad the watch looks great and keeps accurate time and the start/stop function work on the chronograph. I can even set the date when I pull the crown out and press one of the chronograph buttons. Even the movement looks good. But if it’s going to cost too much to fix I’ll just have to open a refund case.

        • sweephand says:

          It’s a shame the fly-back doesn’t work when everything else seems to be working well.

          • dfkafka says:

            well I’ll keep you posted on what the outcome of this watch is, I am still very tempted to bite the bullet and keep it just because it looks stunning.

            Thanks for the reply Stephen

            • sweephand says:

              I can understand the temptation – especially if you got it for a reasonable price 🙂 If you do keep it, I’d love to see some pics – it’s not a model you see every day!

              Stephen

              • dfkafka says:

                Well I ended up getting it for a lot less then I was willing to pay, so that is a plus. I am going to take it to a few places and see if it can be fixed. I hoping for a price that won’t break the bank haha

                For sure I’ll post some pictures as soon as my new watch band comes in.

                • sweephand says:

                  Good luck with it, I hope you can get the fly-back fixed – looking forward to seeing pics 🙂

                  Stephen

                  • dfkafka says:

                    just a quick update I ended up getting in contact with 31 Jewels aka Brian, and I’ll be sending him my Chronograph in the near future for repair. Once it’s all set and done I’ll send you some pictures!

                    -Dylan

  95. adrianlicu says:

    Hello Stephen,

    Is this a franken (dial seems from other model)?
    http://vintagecitizenwatches.com/2014/04/27/vintage-citizen-flyback-chronograph-67-9151-calibre-8110a/

    Thank you,
    Adrian

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Adrian – the dial is from a 67-9038 (which typically used that bracelet too), with the case from a 67-9151. I’ve been in touch with the blogger about it and I see he has changed the description to call it a ‘custom project’ watch.

      Stephen

  96. adrianlicu says:

    Hi Stephen,

    I have another question (sorry but it seems that you are the only reliable source of info about these watches): do all the models share the same crystal? I am looking for a crystal for a 67-9038 and all I could find is a ebay listing entitled along the lines “crystal for citizen bullhead”. Would a bullhead variant crystal match 67-9038 too? Or do you know a reliable source of crystals for it?

    Regards,
    Adrian

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Adrian – no problem about questions, I like questions 🙂
      Several of the 8110 chronographs, but not all, use the same crystal – part number 54-50440. Fortunately the ‘bullhead’ (67-9011) and the 67-9038 use this part, so that eBay one should be ok.

      Stephen

      • adrianlicu says:

        Great, do you know if all I need is the crystal, or also gasket, retaining ring etc (for Seiko depends on the model, some are glued to the ring, other are just snapped in place etc)?

      • Jim B says:

        Hi Stephen, 54-50440 crystal fits for 67-9551 8100A chrono too? If not, which would be the sternkreuz part number for that? Thanks in advance for your answer.

        • sweephand says:

          Hi Jim – yep, 54-50440 is correct for the 67-9551.

          Stephen

          • Jim B says:

            Hi Stephen, thanks for your quick reply! One more question, if I order one XMF 307.878 from cousins.uk will they send me the crystal together with the gasket? If I measure the case opening for crystal, the 30,7mm is correct but that is the gasket’s outer diameter, the crystal is slightly smaller. Thanks again and greatly appreciated for your help.

            • Jim B says:

              Anyway, I ordered one from cousinsuk today so I can tell soon if I got gasket for that or not 🙂

              • sweephand says:

                Hi Jim – sorry I forgot to confirm the Sternkreuz part number in my first reply, but you have ordered the correct one. I don’t know whether the gasket is included, but I would think so – it should be as per the original glass. If it’s not, and if your old crystal gasket is present, you can re-use them it is not damaged. You have to be very careful when removing the old glass since it is easy to kink them. The gasket is narrower on one side – hard to see without a loupe – and this faces upwards as you look down at the watch case when you press the new glass in.

                Stephen

                • Jim B says:

                  Hi Stephen,
                  Thanks for the advices, Cousinsuk sent me the crystal with gasket. Unfortunately I did not notice that the gasket is narrower on one side and I struggled with the installation (even if it was not my first one but was the first Citizen – Seikos were easier before), it was very hard to press the crystal in to its place but I hope it is installed properly. Here is it – the old one and the new: http://kepfeltoltes.hu/151209/2015-12-01_13.29.32_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

                  Jim

                  • sweephand says:

                    Hi Jim – it’s good to know that the Sternkreuz crystals do come with a gasket 🙂 It looks to me like the gasket can be seen in your pic, which I think is not supposed to happen – so it may be that you have put the gasket in upside down and the thicker part has been squeezed causing it to bulge up around the glass. Here’s a pic of one of mine – a different model but it uses the same glass and I fitted an original Citizen part and gasket:

                    Stephen

                    • Jim B says:

                      Hi Stephen,

                      Yes indeed, Your gasket seems to be thinner than mine. Will this cause any problem in the future if I leave the gasket upside down? It seems that the crystal is in deep enough, it stucked so I think it will not fall off ever.

                      Thanks,
                      Jim

                    • sweephand says:

                      Hi Jim – I don’t know for sure, but given it seems to be in place and level, then I guess it will be ok.

                      Stephen

  97. renzo javier says:

    hola a todos..soy nuevo en este tema de los relojes pero entre las cosas de mi abuelito encontre un CITIZEN CHRONOGRAPH AUTOMATIC 23 JEWELS y en su parte de atras dice 4-91177 Y …… 70401341……GN-4-5 ……67-9011…… JAPAN…….SSB… me podrian ayudar diciendome si es original y por dentro esta sucio y cuanto costaria arreglar estos relojes? ….

    • sweephand says:

      (Hello everyone..I’m new on this subject of watches but among the things of my grandfather found a CITIZEN CHRONOGRAPH AUTOMATIC 23 JEWELS and on the back it says 4-91177 and… 70401341…GN-4-5…67-9011… JAPAN… SSB… I could help telling me if it is original and inside this dirty and how much it would cost to fix these watches?)

      Hola Renzo, gracias por visitar mi blog 🙂 Ciertamente parece un original ‘bullhead’ aunque ha escrito el número de caso incorrecto – es 4-901177. Usted necesitará encontrar un relojero que esté familiarizado con la vendimia cronógrafos. Es difícil sugerir un costo, puesto que se necesiten piezas – es probablemente mejor encontrar un buen relojero y ver qué precio le da para el trabajo.

      Hello Renzo, thanks for visiting my blog 🙂 It certainly sounds like an original ‘bullhead’ although you may have typed the case number wrongly – is it 4-901177? You will need to find a watch maker who is familiar with vintage chronographs. It’s difficult to suggest a cost, since parts may be needed – it’s probably best to find a good watch maker and see what price he gives for the work.

      Stephen

      • renzo javier says:

        gracias por ayudarme en eso, pero sabes cuanto cuesta un reloj asi?.. y xq dice 23 joyas..tiene algunas piedras valiosas dentro porque tengo miedo que cuando lo lleve a arreglar me cambien piezas a mi reloj :C

        • sweephand says:

          Me temo que el traductor on-line no está haciendo un gran trabajo – creo que está preguntando cuál es el costo de un servicio, pero el resto no hace mucho sentido (después de la traducción). Yo no tengo mucha experiencia de los costos del servicio, pero supongo que se podría esperar a pagar 150 € a 200 € por un servicio excluyendo cualquier pieza que necesite, por un relojero experto. Pero debo resaltar que se trata de una suposición. Tienes que comprobarlo con un relojero.

          (I’m afraid the on-line translator is not doing a great job – I think you are asking what is the cost of a service, but the rest isn’t making much sense (after translation). I have not got much experience of service costs, but I would guess you could expect to pay €150 to €200 for a service excluding any parts that may be needed, by a skilled watch maker. But I must emphasise that this is a guess! You would have to check it out with a watch maker.)

          Stephen

  98. nephros says:

    Hello!

    I recently acquired a gold-dialled Walter Wolf Special and noticed that the dial code is listed as ‘unknown’ on your site. Well mine has the code 8110-901328-Y on the dial. Maybe you’d like to update this on this site. Proof: http://imgur.com/rlQus9O.jpg

    Let me know if you would like me to find out anything else about this model, I can take any amount of pics and such as you’d like.

  99. nephros says:

    Hello again,

    and while on the topic of Walter Wolf models: I can see the serial numbers on both the one I have and the one you mention elsewhere on the blog start with a 4. Now this is strange, because Walter Wolf Racing operated around 1976-1980.

    So either the watches are from 1974, which would be prior to founding of WWR, or from 1984 which would be a tad late.

    Any guesses what’s up with this?

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Peter, thanks for visiting my blog, and apologies for a late reply – I was away from home for a few days. Firstly thanks for the dial code information, I will certainly add that to the chronograph reference page. Thank you for offering to provide more photos, that is much appreciated 🙂 It would be great to have a shot of the dial, looking straight at it from the front, and on of the case back too if that’s ok.

      Your point about the serial number is interesting – I hadn’t checked the dates of the WWR team before. After some more research, I wonder whether the watches were linked to the Suzuki WW special edition? So far I’ve found an example which was made in 1987, so maybe this could explain the 1980s production dates: http://raresportbikesforsale.com/tag/walter-wolf-racing/

      Stephen

  100. Ricardo Oscar Fiegel says:

    Hi Stephen, I have an octagonal bullhead, seeing your blog could be sure to be all right with it, my doubts and the year of manufacture, will be you can help me, follows the writing on the cover brings: citizen watch co. 4-901223 TA 00600028 GN-4W-S 67-9356 .se can help thank you.
       att Ricardo

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Ricardo, thanks for visiting my blog. The markings on your case back are absolutely correct for the octagonal bullhead. It was made in June 1980 (from first three numbers in the serial number – 006000280). Hopefully the rest of the watch is also correct – does it look ok in comparison to the pictures I’ve posted here?

      Stephen

  101. Ricardo Oscar Fiegel says:

    Hi Stephen, I thank you for your prompt reply, I’m glad to know that everything is fine with my Bullhead, it is equal at all to what you posted, the more I want to read even send photos of you tell me if this alright, thank you
    att Ricardo

  102. Ricardo Oscar Fiegel says:

    Hi Stephen, you can send me an e-mail so I could send le Photos of My Bullhead, if You Can tell me the degree of originality, Thanks.
      att Ricardo

  103. Have you any idea about the black/grey background date wheel on some 67-9119s? I’m close to purchasing one in good condition but was wondering as it has a dark date wheel instead of the white wheel I’m more familiar with. It’s like the japan model pictured here, actually.

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Stephen, thanks for visiting my blog. As you’ll have seen from the pics on the chronograph page, black date and day wheels were original on some models. I’m not sure from your comment whether both day and date are black? If they are then I would think it’s correct. If only the date wheel is black then it, or the day wheel have been replaced.

      Stephen

      • sweephand says:

        The Google translation can be a bit iffy on some Japanese pages – if it doesn’t work I copy the text and use the Bing Translator which seem to do a decent job,

        Stephen

  104. Audun Roalkvam says:

    I have found a 97-9151 that looks like is in good condition, from a reputable dealer. It is all green, without the orange or white markings around the subdials. Possibly the wrong case-back. I know this is a rare piece. Unfortunately I cant upload images. Any idea if this is worth buying (around £ 130)?

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Audun, unfortunately only I can upload images directly here. Do you have a link to any images? (if it’s an auction please don’t post here – if you let me know I can email you privately.

      Does the dial match one of these? as far as I know these are the original versions:

      It’s difficult to comment on the price without seeing the piece, but personally I’d be interested at that price for one of these in good to very good condition, but I would want the correct case back for that money. I worry when case backs have been changed – why should the original not be present? what else might have been done?

      Stephen

  105. Audun Roalkvam says:

    I have a link and can send it to you on an email.

  106. john-john says:

    Salut,

    je suis propriétaire d’une Chrono automatic Citizen de 1979 8110A N° 901045. Le bracelet d’origine est cassé. Où et comment puis-je me procurer un nouveau bracelet? Il est en métal avec des rectangles noir…..

    • sweephand says:

      Salut, Merci de visiter mon blog. Je suis désolé d’entendre que votre bracelet original pour votre 67-9119 a cassé. J’ai vu ces pour la vente de temps en temps sur eBay, mais ils sont assez rares. J’ai peur, que je n’ai pas un de ces de rechange. Vous pouvez essayer de placer un poste “envie d’acheter” sur la Seiko et Citizen Watch Forum : http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php

      Je vais aussi faire un post sur mon blog, juste au cas où quelqu’un peut aider.

      [Hi, thank you for visiting my blog. I am sorry to hear that your original bracelet for your 67-9119 has broken. I have seen these for sale occasionally on eBay, but they are quite rare. I’m afraid I don’t have a spare one of these. You could try placing a ‘want to buy’ post on the Seiko and Citizen Watch Forum: http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php

      I will also do a post on my blog, just in case someone can help.]

      Stephen

  107. dfkafka says:

    Question for you Stephen what is the name of the style of band on the “blackie” with the gold dial? Also do you know if this was the original band that came with that Citizen?

    • sweephand says:

      Hi, good question! I’m afraid I don’t know whether this style has a special name. It’s a leather band with a clasp rather than a buckle. The clasp is signed ‘Citizen’ but I don’t know whether it is an original one for this model. I have seen this type of black cased watch with black metal bands, as well as leather. But the catalog pictures don’t show whether some of the leather ones have clasps or buckles.

      Stephen

  108. Jaqueline Rodrigues says:

    Oi Stephen,
    Estava procurando informações sobre os relogios que ganhei da minha mãe e encontrei sua pagina. Posso te mandar as fotos se quiser por e-mail, mas vou descrever os codigos escritos neles.
    Citizen BLG – K GN- 4W- S 8060A 21J e modelo feminino Citizen 5030648 31-4200.
    Se souber alguma informação, agradeço!

    • sweephand says:

      Oi Jaqueline, obrigado por visitar meu blog 🙂 Vou enviar-lhe um e-mail para que eu poder ter um olhar para os relógios, para que possa dar uma resposta melhor,

      [thank you for visiting my blog 🙂 I will send you an email so I can have a look at your watches, so I can give a better reply,]

      Stephen

  109. Alva Shortt says:

    Hi Stephen
    I just bought a challenge timer on auction. Its a beautiful watch! the serial is 4-901177K 00100486 GN-4-5 67-9011 SSB. I assume it was produced in January 1980. The watch runs fine and the chrono and fly back function except that the flyback resets to the 4 o clock position instead of 12 o clock. Do you know if that can be adjusted without opening up the watch or do I need to visit a watchmaker? Pop me an email and I’ll gladly share some photos.
    Regards
    Alva

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Alva, thanks for visiting my blog, and congratulations on your acquisition 🙂 1980 is correct for your watch. The reset problem will need to be sorted by a watch maker – I’m not a watch maker so I don’t know exactly what causes this problem. If you want to get it resolved it would probably best for it to be done as part of a full service. It’s important that you find someone who is familiar with these watches, and who can access parts if they are needed. Email on its way for photos 🙂

      Stephen

  110. Ken says:

    Hi Stephen. Awesome informative detailed info about VCWs !!!! Thank you for taking the time to share with the watch collecting community. I am new to vintage watches and I am on the hunt form first watch: a decent Citizen Bullhead Chrono that is as original as possible. Having a difficult time finding one on ebay amongst the variety of sellers across the globe. This blog has been essential to assist me in weeding out obvious franken watches etc. Anyway I have come across what appears to be a decent Bullhead octagonal (67-9356 ) with white face that supposedly has the original dial however one item that stood out is the date wheel has the opposite opposing color (white) not matching the sub-dial color which is black. Have you seen any Bullheads including the octagonal variant that has the opposite color date wheel than expected ? Does this mean that the movement possibly has been replaced with a watch that had a black dial ? Thanks, Ken

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Ken, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your kind comments, much appreciated 🙂 As far as I know, in original state the white dialled 67-9356 has black wheels, and the black dialled one has white. I haven’t seen a contemporary image, a catalog or advert for example, which shows anything different. Interestingly, I’ve seen quite a few 67-9011 silver dialled models with white wheels, including mine, which otherwise seem completely original. Again, original catalog scans show them with black wheels. Having said, although the convention appears to be black wheel with black sub-dials, I still wonder if white wheels were an option, since the convention was broken on this one (scan of original catalog):

      Doesn’t really help with the one you are looking at I’m afraid!

      Stephen

      • Ken says:

        Thanks for the info Stephen ! I too wonder if the white wheels were an option. I ended up finding an original 67-9011 instead Silver dial with the “correct” date wheel color. Came from the original owner. Appears to be date code “1” or 1981 bought new and only wore a few times (supposedly). Should be arriving in the mail this morning so I can verify everything and check functionality. Thanks, Ken

        • sweephand says:

          Hi Ken – thanks for the update, and congrats on buying what sounds like a very nice 67-9011 Challenge Timer. Would be good to see pics when you have got it 🙂

          Stephen

  111. dfkafka says:

    Hello Stephen,
    Attached please see my Citizen which was recently serviced by Brian “31 Jewels” He was able to replace the crown and crystal to original specifications. As well a fix the start and stop function on the chronograph. If anyone needs their Citizen serviced I highly recommend Brian.

    [IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/2upfh4j.jpg[/IMG]

  112. Michael says:

    Hello sweephand – congratulations to your very informative blog, the one and only real guide to vintage Citizen chronographs.
    i own three different Bullheads and now a got another Citizen Chronograph at ebay.
    Its the rare “Spaceman” model 67-9178 and seems to be in good and rather original condition. the watch is on the way and i did not see it in person but from the pics i found out that the caseback has the following numbers: 4-901037TA, 30700023 and 67-9038.
    this does not seem to be correct for the “Spaceman” as picture above.
    has the caseback simply been changed or what do you think?

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Michael, thanks for visiting my blog. Thanks also for your kind comments, much appreciated. I had seen the watch you have bought since I have a look at what’s being sold on eBay from time to time. It is the wrong case back as you say. The hands are also after-market replacements I’m afraid, whilst the case and dial look to be correct. The hour markers may have been re-lumed since the seller says they glow in the dark. I’d look closely at them to check they have been re-done well if that is the case. The bezel shows the typical wear that occurs with this model. I am very familiar with this UK seller – he appears to buy pieces from places like the Philippines and sell them on at much higher prices. I have often seen wrong case backs on his 8110 chronographs (and over polished cases) – I would think this is because the original sellers have used available parts from different watches to make one sell-able item. Although that’s not such a problem, the UK seller’s descriptions are usually misleading, since, like yours, he often says they are ‘completely original’ and ‘very rare’ and his write-ups are re-assuring for buyers without reference to what’s been done and use of non-original parts. It makes it difficult for buyers who may not know the models in detail, and prices achieved are often too high compared to what might be paid for a completely original piece. If you aren’t happy with the watch when it arrives, I’m pretty sure that you have a good case for a refund as ‘not as described’….

      The 67-9178 ‘Spaceman’ is a rare model, and is in my opinion a great looking and unusual design, especially the gold / green bezel. And if you are not too concerned about full originality you may be happy with this one when it arrives. However, as you may have realised, I do not like this seller’s approach at all, so if you do have second thoughts about it I am happy for you to refer to my information if you want to return it for a refund.

      Stephen

  113. Michael says:

    Thank you Stephen for the very helpful reply. I contacted the seller and he will try to get a correct case back or refund a part of the price. so i will be happy with my purchase. i like the watch and it is very rare indeed. the watch will arrive in the next days and i will keep you updated.

  114. mika heinonen finland says:

    hi. just found this site and wondering my old citizen from 70´s,i gues. just ordinary looking clock,with original steel wrist band and numbers on the back. 6000 4-600363 ta automatic 50104226 62-6716. just wondering what this one is. thank you

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Mika, thanks for visiting my blog – you have an automatic from January 1975 with the 6000 movement. Since it’s marked ‘6000’ I believe it has a date window, but no day. The movement will be marked 6001 as was also used in the 62-6198 150m diver. The 6000 movements – the 6001 like yours and the 6501 with day window – were made for only a few years from 1971. The 6501 models often have fancy dials and faceted glass and sometimes had cases made from unusual materials, including wood, agate and ceramics. They run at 21,600 beats per hour, and are of good quality. They were one of the last mechanical movements to be developed before Citizen narrowed its range down to the 8200 auto’s and shifted focus to quartz technology.

      Stephen

  115. Ethan says:

    Hello Stephen,

    I got a 8110A Bullhead recently and I have some questions about it that I would like to ask you.

    1. The crown turns in only one direction (anti-clockwise). Is that normal? Or is it supposed to have a hand-wind feature?

    2. The dial is blue with black sub-dials. Is it an after-market colour?

    Hope to get your reply soon and thanks in advance! By the way, an awesome blog you have there!

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Ethan, thanks for visiting my blog, and thank you for your kind comment. The 8110A does hand wind, so the crown should turn in a clockwise direction to wind it – you should here the click stop working when it turns anti-clockwise, like a mini ratchet working, so it can be turned back and forth to wind it up. Is it running properly via the auto winding system?>

      Blue/black dials are after-market – the original colour range is quite limited – see here: https://sweep-hand.org/want-an-original-citizen-bullhead-a-quick-buying-guide/

      Stephen

      • Ethan says:

        Hey Stephen,

        Thanks for the information. The crown is unable to turn clockwise, not a tiny bit. But yes, it is running properly via the automatic winding system. Any idea what could be the problem? Would there be a need to replace any parts? If so, would it be expensive?

  116. Russ says:

    Hi Stephen,
    Great site, thanks for the information. It’s very helpful. I just got my first vintage Citizen bullhead, a model 901193k from (I think) September of 1977. It is in lovely condition and makes me think it’s a great estate sale find, though I guess it could have been restored at some point. My watch is not gold plated, instead it is a brushed satin finish of base metal (which I greatly prefer). Since you mention that my model number is gold plated, I’m wondering if mine is an outlier, or has been polished. If someone removed the gold, they did an outstanding job.

    Here are some links to pictures. Despite the warm cast to the pictures, the watch is steel colored with a gold dial.

    POD26-365
    IMAG0300
    IMAG0278

    Another question I have is how do I size the bracelet, and can I do it non-destructively? There don’t appear to be pins that I can remove (and no arrows on the underside to indicate direction), but obviously it can be sized. I put the watch on the leather band for now, but I’d like to have the option of wearing the bracelet as well.

    IMAG0293
    IMAG0292

    Thanks for any comments/insights you can offer.

    • Russ says:

      Checking more, I see “GPB” on the caseback. The dial code is 901018 KA. So it looks like this was gold plated originally. That’s okay, I prefer this look.

      • sweephand says:

        Hi Russ – I should have said on my reply to your first comment that the serial number on yours appears to start with ‘109’, which would give a production date of September, 1981.

        Stephen

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Russ, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comments. Your watch has had a lot of work done – as you know the case material code (GPB) indicates a gold plated case with black bezel, so this one has been de-plated and re-finished. The original plating can get very worn, so I have seen many examples that have been re-finished this way. The dial is a recent replacement – the ‘Citizen’ logo would be an applied marker cut from stainless steel, like the ones in this pic: . The code for a gold dial would be 901026, 901018 is for an original silver/white dial.

      I would think the hands are recent replacements too. I imagine that the original watch was in a poor state, perhaps beyond restoration, so parts have been replaced. I would think that your watch is in fact a fairly recent re-finish. Was it described as an ‘original’ example? Many sellers don’t declare what has been done to the watches they are selling.

      Re-sizing a folded link bracelet is a good question – I have been fortunate in that I have always been able to adjust mine using the clasp so I have never worked on one. If you Google ‘how to re-size a folded link bracelet’ you will find helpful posts about it, but it does seem that you have to unfold them, at least in part, to remove links.

      Stephen

      • Russ says:

        Thanks Stephen, all really good information. The watch was sold with no guarantees (I talked to the seller and am confident we were both equally blind, so I’m fine with the sale).

        As for the bracelet, I’ll probably just leave it as is and put this watch on a rally strap. I need a black strap watch anyway.

        Finally, for the serial number, it definitely starts with a 7. Of course, there’s no guarantee that the caseback is original. I couldn’t (easily) get the caseback off, but should the matching serial number also be on the movement?

  117. Marcus says:

    Stephen, I just picked up a 67-9119 and while everything mostly works, the hour/minute hands get stuck at various points throughout the day, most typically around 10:20 in the evening, probably when the day/date wheels engage. The chronograph keeps running throughout. It seems as though it doesn’t get stuck unless it’s off my wrist.

    Is this something a service is likely to fix or a symptom of parts failure?

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Marcus, thanks for visiting my blog. I’m not a watch maker / repairer, so I’ve contacted someone who is – he thinks from your description that a service may well sort out the issue. You’ll need someone who is experienced in working on vintage chronographs to trust to do a full and proper service.

      Stephen

      • Marcus says:

        Thanks! I’m taking it in today. As with many vintage chronographs, the debate is whether to spend more than the watch cost on a service.

        • sweephand says:

          Good luck with it Markus – you’re right about the service cost vs purchase price dilemma. However, a serious fault will greatly reduce value, especially a fundamental timekeeping one like yours, even if it’s ok on the wrist. And if you are planning to keep the watch and use it regularly a service is needed to prevent further problems / deterioration.

          Stephen

  118. miparo75 says:

    Hello sweephand.. was wondering if you can still restore a Citizen 67-9313. i received a working watch and wanted to see if you can do your magic. anyways, please email me at miparo75 (at) gmail.com so ican start the process. Thank you.

  119. rpm499 says:

    Hi i have citizen watch 8110 case no 4-901142 y/60911725/GN-4W-S/67-9151. I have lost big ring since 2009 which hold machine. Watch machine has been working nice and has given accurate time till ring not lost. I try lots but couldn’t find local level.
    One other thing about watch is : dial of watch need to reprint /repaint or should be change because watch look ugly. I want new dial or repaint. .please help/guide me

    • sweephand says:

      Hi, and thanks for visiting my blog. I’m afraid parts for a 67-9151 are very difficult to find. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone who can do a full repaint / reprint of the dial. Have you any photos of the watch and the movement (with missing ring) that you can post a link to? Someone like Brian (’31 Jewels’) could take a look and advise whether it can be improved – he has done a lot of great work on dials that others might see as only scrap! He may also be able to advise on the movement retaining ring.

      Stephen

  120. stefan says:

    hello
    sorry for my bad english:-((
    i search a Walter wolf Chrono, can you help? I living in Germany
    BR

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Stefan, thanks for visiting my blog. I’d be interested to find one of these chronographs too! I’m afraid I don’t know of one for sale anywhere at the moment. They have occasionally appeared on eBay and Yahoo Japan.

      Stephen

  121. Juan says:

    hi, great site and you really seem to know your stuff , wondering if you can help me found some of my dads old watches one of them was a p8110 same as

    doesn’t seem to start , i have opened the back cover to check the pendulum and it rotates freely i also tried winding it manually , but no go do you have any suggestions as i would love to get this going again

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Juan – thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment. Good to hear that your dad had a 67-9119 🙂 I’m not a watchmaker myself, but it may be that the watch just needs a thorough clean and service if it has not been used for a long while. Do you know if the day and date change ok?

      To get the watch up and running well again, it will need to go to a good watch maker who knows these movements inside out and will do a proper job, and can source parts if they are needed. This isn’t a cheap process, but if you want a watch that will run accurately and reliably, then this is the way to go. I am very happy to recommend Brian, aka 31 Jewels, whose work is featured on this blog. He is in the USA. If you would like to contact him to discuss the watch, then just let me know here and I’ll email his contact details. If you want to see what he does, please have a look at these pages:
      https://sweep-hand.org/brians-8110a-restoration-the-speedy-67-9313/
      https://sweep-hand.org/restorations-by-brian-aka-31-jewels-page-1/
      https://sweep-hand.org/the-citizen-auto-1958/

      Stephen

  122. Spiros Manesis says:

    Hello Stephen , Guys … I am searching a lottttt of time to find an original Citizen Bullhead (any of them) … Many of them in ebay are restored and no original ones (i think there was one or two cases but i missed the chance) … Is there anyone out there that sells an original one and in good condition ? … Thanks Stephen , guys …

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Spiros – finding an original ‘bullhead’ is tough these days. As you have discovered there are plenty about, but most have after market parts. Does it have to be the bullhead design, or are you interested in other 8110 models?

      Stephen

      • Spiros Manesis says:

        Hello Stephen , thanks for the reply … I am looking for the 8110 bullhead design only and especially the 67-9011’s … (as shown above in your reference) … I know though that the C category 67-9011’s bullheads are super rare to find … but I have patience … 🙂 , if someone is willing to sell an original and in good condition one I am here to discuss it …

      • sweephand says:

        Ok Spiros – good luck with your search!

        Stephen

  123. THAMALKA says:

    Hi Stephen great site and I have a citizen flyback chronograph. Whats its manufacturing year?
    4-901045 ta/ 81100010/GN-4-s/ 67-9119/ JAPAN/ SSB. And watch is SSB?

    • sweephand says:

      Hi and thank you for visiting my blog – your watch was made in November 1978 (see first three figures in the serial number). ‘SSB’ is the case material code, meaning it has a stainless steel case with a black bezel.

      Stephen

  124. suranga says:

    i want to buy a Superking citizen.where i can buy my friend

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Suranga – thanks for visiting my blog. I’m afraid the only place to find one at the moment looks like eBay. There are two in the USA for example, but they are hugely over-priced. Good luck for your search!
      Stephen

  125. ed says:

    hi!
    can someone tell me the small hand sizes (chrono hands) on the 8110a?
    thanks
    Ed

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Ed – here’s a scan from an original parts catalogue. I’ve added the colours in the right hand column, I think I’ve translated correctly, only black is missing I think. It seems from the layout that 395-4040 and 4054 are 3.00mm long, and 395-4010 and 4030 are 3.50mm long, although it would be hard to see the difference! I presume the length is measured from the centre hole to the tip. I’m afraid I don’t have the centre hole size, but might be able to find out if you need that too.

      Stephen

  126. Lander says:

    Hi, I’ve a 67-9119 (Case Number: 4-901045) and I want to change the crystal but I don’t find 54-50880 numbered crystal. Do you know its specs? Would you use sapphire?
    Thanks.
    My others 8110a:
    [img]http://i.imgur.com/xAOBMBT.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://i.imgur.com/lBgkbFN.jpg[/img]

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Lander, thanks for visiting my blog. Your 8110’s are very nice 🙂 The crystals for these are getting very hard to find. I don’t know anywhere with the 54-50880. To be close to the original any replacement should be flat mineral glass with a bevelled edge. I don’t have the original specs though I’m afraid – you’d have to measure your old one, if it’s an original of course.

      Stephen

  127. Jonas Noren says:

    Hej,
    I have a Citizen Seven Star Deluxe from 1966. Unfortunately it is not in a very good shape. I would like to get at least a new glas and new crowns. Do you know where to find and buy spare parts?
    Thank you! /Jonas

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Jonas – thanks for visiting my blog. Can you tell me what the case and / or model numbers are, so I can see if I can find the part numbers. The case number will be in the form of 4-xxxxxx, or if it’s an older style one, it will be ACSSxxxx.

      Stephen

      • Jonas says:

        Hej, thank you for your quick reply. Yes, you have a very nice blog. I am a general watch collector, not a Citizen expert, so I found a lot of interesting information. The case number is 4-520319Y, 90312303. I do not know what the last 8 digits are, I am not so familiar with Citizen. I can also send you a picture of the watch if you need. /Jonas

  128. David says:

    Hi, I’ve reading your blog for a while and it’s awesome, so congrats. I found about this watch models some time ago and i’ve been trying to get one.

    Finally i bought one today, but i was wondering if you can help me. the model of the watch in your blog and everything is right except for the dial, what can you tell me about it, it cost me 49 GBP from ebay .


    Thanks.

    /David

    • sweephand says:

      Hi David, thanks for reading my blog and for your kind comments. As you have identified, that is the wrong dial for that case. Email on the way,

      Stephen

  129. Joe says:

    Hi! I am considering buying a fine-looking Bullhead chrono with champagne face, black subdials and tachymeter band, and silver-colored base metal top, from a local shop. As far as I could measure using an iPhone app, it was running +1 minute/day fast. The movement has probably never been serviced since the 70s. How easy would it be for a regular watch repair place to regulate it and/or clean it up? Are there Citizen vintage specialists that you know who can help? One minute a day for a watch I will use regularly does not sound good to me, and I worry that a service may costs more than the watch. Any help and suggestions are most appreciated.

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Joe – thanks for visiting my blog, and apologies for slow reply. I would certainly recommend that you find a watchmaker who knows these 8110 movements, since they would be familiar with the design and and any associated problems that can occur, even if it’s just through normal wear. Also, if parts are needed, a specialist in these is much more likely to have spares, or know where they might be found – not easy these days! A full service, which would be completed disassembly, cleaning, lubrication, reassembly and timing /regulation isn’t cheap, but would ensure the watch would run well and reliably and suitable for regular use. Not necessarily more than the price of the watch, of course that depends on what has been pad! And these movements, which are high-beat (28,800 bph) can run very accurately after such attention. I have had several of my watches, including two 8110’s serviced and repaired by Brian Leiser, a master watchmaker in the USA, whose work is featured on my blog, see here for example: https://sweep-hand.org/brians-8110a-restoration-the-speedy-67-9313/

      I’m sure Brian can give you some idea of the likely cost if you buy an 8110 chronograph – I can send his contact details if you wish.

      I’ll send you a direct email about the particular watch you are looking at.

      Stephen

  130. Axel Brenes says:

    Hola Stephen,

    Antes que nada , quiero agradecerte por compartir tu conocimiento
    con todos nosotros coleccionistas de relojes Citizen. Es de gran ayuda
    y un gran trabajo lo que haces.

    Recien compré un Bullhead 67-9356 con número de serie 1120686.

    Es correcto asumir que fue producido en Dic 1981?

    Quedo atento, y de antemano gracias.

    • sweephand says:

      Hola y gracias por visitar mi blog. Felicidades por la compra de un 67-9356 🙂

      Tienes razón en que se hizo en diciembre de 1981 , por lo que debe ser uno de los últimos en ser producido

      Stephen

  131. Simon says:

    Hi Stephen
    Congratulations on your website – it is extremely informative and has proven of great use to me lately. I have today bought my first Challenge Timer, with the following information displayed on it:
    4-901223TA
    10402159
    GN-4W-S
    67-9356

    This is the all stainless steel version. I have two questions which I would greatly appreciate your help with:
    1. Am I right in thinking that the month/year of manufacture is April 1981, (I wasn’t sure if it was 1971?)
    2. What do you advise in relation to the chronograph function? i.e. for how long should I run it before giving it a rest and for how long should it be off?

    Thanks for any advice in advance.

    Simon

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Simon, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your kind comments. You’re right about the date, definitely 1981. This model was made a bit later than some, and the Challenge Timers were launched in 1972 so can’t be earlier than that. As to the chrono function, I think if I were wearing one of these as a daily wearer I’d leave it running as the norm, and stop it for a few hours once a week or so. If only wearing now and again, I would occasionally stop the chrono when in use but I’d let it wind down with the chrono running since I think there is some pressure on the chrono mechanism even when the watch is not running when the chrono is off. Stephen

  132. Hi I’m Eduardo de Chile !
    Get my hands as a gift one of the reloges coming out in his post , is the Citizen Watch co 4-901134 k / 00601219 gn- 4w – s / 679 143 japan BLG is titanium-colored rimmed bronze is of the type ” bullhead ” and not working. I have tried to find information but found nothing and until you get to your post .
    I would like to know the value of relog
    According to a local reloguero says it can be quite expensive as it is in perfect condition !
    Hopefully I can help , Greetings !

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Eduardo, thanks for visiting my blog. I am on vacation just now so will do a full reply in a few day’s time. Stephen

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Eduardo – it is fairly costly to have one of these chronographs serviced properly by a suitably skilled watchmaker. And if repairs and parts are needed then it is of course more expensive. I can recommend Brian Leiser in the USA, and I can let you have his contact details if you want to ask him about the likely cost. I was a bit puzzled by your description of the case as being ‘titanium’ and ‘bronze’. This model should have a black case (can sometimes seem to be a dark brown), with a gold bezel, so is yours different? Stephen

  133. Henry says:

    Hi,

    I am sorry in advance if the answer to my question is already written on your website. There is a lot of information on here and I have looked for a while already.

    I have a bullshead chrono octagon 67-9356 and I would like to know the part number for the crystal or If they are too hard to come by then what is an appropriate replacement option.

    You have an awesome website

    Regards

    Henry

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Henry, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your kind comment. Apologies for my slow reply, but I wanted to check something out first. I’ll send you an email shortly.
      Stephen

      • Henry says:

        Thanks for your helpful email reply Stephen.

        I have sent you another email in response but have not yet heard back, please let me know if you did not receive my email and I will re send it. I realise you are busy so i am not looking to hassle..

        Thanks again

        Henry

  134. old limey says:

    Hi Stephen,

    I have some photos I’d like to share with you of two Citizen 67-9071 “Monacos” that I have, one green dial, one gold dial. The differences between the dials are very subtle, but I thought you might find them interesting. They could be useful for the section above as they include the dial codes. Please email me and we can chat later perhaps!

    Love this blog, it’s been such a wonderful reference.

  135. Manikandan says:

    Hello Everyone, I am Mani from India…..Such a wonderful blog, i never visited any site this one…Hats off to the folks who shares info about vintage watches….i love vintage watches yes me too collect vintage watches…will be asking questions on my collections soon….thanks in advance…..

  136. Helge says:

    Hello sweephand,
    I just got hold of a Citizen Chrono. I couldn`t find any informations. Maybe you can help?
    On the back of the case are stamped the following number/letter combinations:

    Case number: 4-722019TA
    Model number: 67-5652
    Case type: GN-4W-S
    Serial: 20300326
    Parawater
    Stainless Steel

    By the way: Great site with tons of information! I “lost” a lot of evenings just zapping through the content. And it inspired me to add some more vintage Citizen watches to my belongings …. I really do not want to know, how much time you invested until now. Again great many thanks for setting up this little treasure chest.

    Cheers, Helge

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Helge – thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comments. Your watch is from March 1972, and is one of the ‘Seven Star’ models. If yours hasn’t got ‘Seven Star’ printed on the dial, then it is an export model – Citizen usually dropped the model names on their export offerings – does it look like this one (maybe with a different dial colour, i.e. gold or silver)?: http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/Sweephand/67-5652Catalog_zps3sfia9o4.jpg

      67-5652 is the model name, whilst 4-722019 is the case number, which is more useful in that it indicates that it has a 72 movement inside. There was a range of 72 based watches made around 1970, when it replaced the 52 series as used in the Crystal 7 models. The Leopard/Seven Star Family Tree shows the various movements and where this one – the 7270 – fits in, see here: https://sweephand.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/72leopardsevenstarfamilytreesecure.pdf

      Hope this helps, please ask if you have any more questions. Stephen

  137. Helge says:

    Hello sweephands,
    then there is something wrong. How can I send you a picture?
    Cheers Helge

  138. Bruno says:

    Hi,
    You have a great blog for Citizen’s watchs lovers.
    Do you know by any chance the reference number of the 8100 4-900014 crystal?
    I can’t find it anywhere.
    Thanks,
    Bruno

    • sweephand says:

      Hi Bruno, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment. The part number for the glass is 54-50440. It’s the same one that is used in the well known 67-9011 ‘bullhead’. They are getting very hard to find these days….
      Stephen

      • Bruno says:

        Thanks for the quick answer.
        Yeah, if it’s the same than the bullhead, a lot of people will be looking for it. Do you think the crystals from Boley and Sternkreuz could be acceptable alternatives? (good quality, same chamfer and thickness).
        Bruno

        • sweephand says:

          I’ve not tried those alternative crystals so I don’t know how good they are. Boley’s should be alright since they are owned by Citizen! The original crystals come with a gasket – I don’t know whether the replacements do, so it’s important to be careful when taking the old glass out since the old gasket may be ok to leave in place. Stephen

          • Bruno says:

            Okay,
            Thanks for the advices.
            It’s a cool hobby, trying to restore those vintage mecanism. I bought one on ebay just by a look on the picture and without knowing the brand. After that I found your blog and didn’t regret my purchase.
            Good continuation to you,
            Bruno

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