The 21 jewel 8200 automatic movement (21,600 bph) was first produced around 1975, and by the end of the 1970s it had become Citizen’s standard automatic, as the range of mechanical watches was massively reduced as a result of the quartz revolution. Although the majority of 8200’s you’ll see are 21 jewels, they were also made with 17 jewels – I don’t think that version was used in the Eagle 7 line though. Although I include the 8200 in the Movement Table, it was one of the latest movements to be produced in the time frame I have researched, and I don’t (as yet at least) have an example in my collection. However, it is an important movement since it became the Citizen’s base auto for many years, used in a great number of models up to the present day, especially the ‘Eagle 7’ line which rivalled the Seiko 5. These watches regularly show up for sale, and other than the diver models they don’t make a great deal of money. However, in good condition they should be reliable and accurate watches.
I recently had a question from ‘Kurtnet’ (see here: https://sweep-hand.org/movement-table/#comment-1882) and he sent me pics of his watch to help check it out – he was worried it might not be authentic. It looks correct to me, and since it is not marked ‘Eagle 7’ I think this is one of the earlier ones. This one has a serial number starting ‘901’ so I think it’s from January 1979. I thought it would be nice to show the pics here:
Kurtnet’s watch is in decent condition, the case has not been polished and retains its sharp edges. Some scratching on the glass, but it has a nice hand set, and also has Kanji days:
Thanks for the photos Kurtnet 🙂
Sweephand, I am in a bit quandary. I have just acquired a pristine Citizen Automatic 8200A and I wanted to ask you if you think it is all original or whether it has been reconditioned.
As can be seen from the pictures at the link
It is a red face watch with no Dial code only the following text:
Citizen Automatic 21 Jewels Japan Made
The back engraving is incomplete in parts although the text in the center is legible and reads:
4-281080 KT 011012 70 GN-4W-S 71-2591
The Movement has the following information
Citizen Watch Co 8200A Unadjusted Japan Twenty One 21 Jewels Along with 7 or ‘V’ at the 7 o clock position.
Hi Alan, thanks for visiting my blog. I’m afraid your watch has been re-dialled. The movement, case and back are authentic and correct for a Citizen 8200 automatic, but the dial and hands are not correct. The red colour is not an original Citizen colour, and the applied logo is not a proper Citizen one. The original dial for this was either pale gold or black as far as I know. Here’s an example: The back is the same as yours:
Since the dial has been re-done, or replaced, which suggests the original was not in good shape, it’s possible that the case has been re-plated.
Sorry this is a negative assessment – I have seen lots of these sort of re-done watches on eBay, I would guess that you didn’t pay too much? Sellers should say what has been done – I know they often don’t of course – but at least a ‘junk’ watch has been saved from the bin. The worry is that the movement has seen much better days although yours looks clean and corrosion free.
I have the same watch with the same numbers on the back but in the front it says only Automatic and can’t find the exact model of this watch , any clue?
Hi Sharon. apologies for such a late reply. Can you please tell me what is stamped on the back of the watch?
Thank you for your response, it was very much as I had expected it is also very nice to see what the watch should have looked like. I must admit that the colour of the face was the reason I bought the watch in the first place. May I also say how much I enjoy your blog and informative and passionate descriptions you provide about these wonderful watches; is there any chance for an article on the eagle 7 range in the future?
thanks for your kind comments, they are much appreciated 🙂 The Eagle 7 range actually falls outside my core collecting area, since those models were made after 1980. As a result I have got little reference material, other than on the 8200 movement itself which was first made around 1975. I’ll certainly consider doing something on the movement, since that is clearly within my time period, and that would have to refer to the Eagle 7’s to be comprehensive.
Hi again Stephen,
hope you are well.
Just picking up on the above, I have seen lots of these watches on ebay/Etsy for example. I am finding it difficult to recognise original dials. The pics they provide of the movements look authentic but the dials are all sorts of different colours and designs. Some are outrageous! I know they only go for small money so not losing out much but it would be nice to be able to recognise new dials from old (any model not just the Eagle 7’s). have you any tips?
Hi Chris, all good here thanks, hope the same goes for you. It can indeed be difficult to identify correct models / dials. Citizen produced some colourful dials and unusual designs themselves, so not all of the weirder ones are are necessarily re-dials/re-paints. However, there are many examples on eBay with re-painted dials – mostly these seem to have been done in India, where I guess people are rescuing watches where the original dials are in poor condition. And to be fair at least some sellers say that the dial is re-painted in the description. The cases and movements are probably original, although sometimes the cases are heavily polished. Citizen made a lot of the 8200 models, most commonly the ‘Eagle 7’ ones (but as you say not always) in the 1980s and 1990s. I don’t have original catalogs for the vast majority of these so it is a question of studying the dial and coming to a conclusion about it, using the case and model numbers to see if another example can be found. Some re-painted dials are obvious, since their quality is not good enough to be original, e.g. less than fine printing, crudely cut applied logos and sometimes odd emblems, whilst some have ‘Citizen’ applied in what looks rather like solder. These can be easily discounted as original, but others are less easy.
First off I would advise doing a search for other examples, using the case and model numbers – if you can find others then they can at least be compared. When examining a dial, look for a dial code near the 6 o’clock marker – if that is missing then it’s likely to be a re-paint, or at least touched up round the edge. It may be difficult to see in a photo, so ask the seller to confirm whether a code is there. Usually, for an 8200 model, the dial code will start with ‘8200’ or be in the form of ‘6-82XXXX’. Also, compare the quality of the dial printing and logos / emblems with other ones which are known to be original – re-paints are likely to be coarser than original quality.
After that, if you’re not sure about a piece, I am quite happy to take a look and see what I can find out / conclude about originality or otherwise.
Thats great thanks. It is a bit of a mine field it seems!! Yes, the majority are from India as you said and some have an ‘Asian’ style look about them..Golden/colourful dials. These will brighten up my collection.
Happy hunting Chris 🙂
Seems like I too got burned by the fancy dial….
Hi Ravi, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment. I just replied to you via email. Stephen
Hi, am searching information about a Citizien that i found in my house, but i did not foun much information, I saw the numer 8200 (Japan 8200) and google showed me this link. The watch is old as the movement.
The watch has the following numbers and codes.
CITIZIEN watch co. 4-062787 SMT 9056704C GN-4-S 71-1705 JAPAN G.P
what information can you give me about the watch?
Hi Nestor, thank you for visiting my blog – I am sorry for my late reply, but I’ve had to replace my computer this week and going from WinXP to 8.1 has been a bit of a challenge 😉
The information from the case back on your watch indicates it is one of the Eagle 7 models, which use the 8200 automatic movement. Although this movement was first produced in 1976, the Eagle 7 range appeared in the 1980s and was made right through the 1990s. From the style of the case back numbers I would say that the first three parts of the serial number on yours – 9056704 – give a production date of May 1989. The other numbers are the case number (4-062787) and the model number (71-1705). ‘GN-4-S’ is the case type code, indicating a water resistant crystal and screw-on back.
Many thanks for informative blog.
I just bought a Citizen 71-2639 with a 8200A movement. Information on the internet indicates it is a 7 Eagle but there is no such logo on the watch. Is it a re-paint?
H Fredrik, thanks for visiting my blog. It is a repainted dial, usually the ones like this have been re-done in India. I guess that the original dial was badly worn / damaged so it’s a way of rescuing the case and movement. What’s happened to the second hand? it seems to have gone AWOL!
Thanks for the reply. I will bring this up with the seller. I now have a small collection of vintage Citizens…4 in total but as I am very happy with the first three ones there will be more to come.
Good luck with your discussion with the seller. Nice to hear that you have some other Citizens – which ones do you have?
A Parawater 21j 63-4093 with a blue shimmering dial…from 1972…a Simpson?
An Automatic 17j parawater 62-8018…1971 it seems. Black dial.
A CCP 63-6517 with a silver bullseye dial. Can not figure out the year but around 1970.
Will get back with pics.
Looking forward to seeing pics 🙂
Hi, I own a Citizen automatic 21 Jewels. I bought it from one of those India shops on Ebay. It has a nice black face with gold index hour markers. It has served me well for the past year. Today, I dropped it on the wood floor and guess what, it stopped. Is it worth rescuing? The back is labeled Citizen Watch Co. Water Resist Stainless 4-824083K Serial 30103042 GN-4-S Japan.
The front says Japan P-820 O-S92844KA
I like the look and feel of it. Hope it is not a lost cause.
Hi Jeff, thanks for visiting my blog. Sorry to hear about the accident to the watch. The movement in yours is the 8200 automatic which is a reliable ‘workhorse’ that can often be very accurate. The dilemma you’ll have is whether a repair is worth the expense, compared to finding a replacement movement. These aren’t expensive pieces so they an be picked up cheaply, and that may be a more economic route for a ‘donor’ watch than paying for a repair – searching eBay with ‘Citizen 21 jewels’ should find some. If you have a local watchmaker (not a jewellers) who can take a look and give you a quote for repair or movement transplant (if you aren’t able to do it yourself) then you’ll be in a better position to decide.
Thanks, I will start looking for new guts.
Good luck with your search and transplant!
I have two Citizen date hand wind watches, one with a 2510 movement and the other with a 2510A movement. These movements are of quite a different design to the other hand winders I have seen. Do you have any information about them as when I google “Citizen 2510 movement ” the search produces details for a quartz movement.
Hi Alastair, thanks for visiting my blog. The 25xx movements were produced from 1972 to around 1980. They were a more basic design than Citizen’s other hand winders, so they could offer them at an affordable price. Perhaps because they weren’t designed for longevity, not many examples are seen. A bit more info is on page 10 of the Movement Table: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.netherwood/VintageCitizenMovementTablev6.0Secure.pdf
Are case backs marked in the usual way? i.e. do they have case and model numbers and a serial number? If they have a conventional serial number we can identify the production date.
Thanks for your comments .The case back markings are
Thanks for you blog I have been watching for a few months and have learned a lot
Keep up the good work
Hi Alastair, thanks for the info – unfortunately no serial numbers, so exact dates of production can’t be determined, although I wonder if the ’74’ on the second one refers to 1974. Thanks for your kind comments and good to hear you are following the blog 🙂
I have enjoyed reading your blogs. I am trying to find out more information on a Citizen 21 Jewel watch that I purchased from ebay. The movement is 8200A and back markings are:
Citizen Watch Co
I assume this is a redialed watch but any information you have would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Derek, thanks for visiting my blog and it’s good to hear you have enjoyed it. You’re right that your watch has been re-dialled – was it from India? The sellers there often repaint dials, presumably because the originals have got badly faded / corroded. The 8200 auto movement was first made in 1976 and became Citizen’s workhorse mechanical watch for many years. It is a sound and reliable movement, and in good condition will run pretty accurately. It can be hand wound as well, which is handy to get it going and a few turns is recommended to give best performance – see this manual: http://www.citizen.com.hk/upload/instruction_manual/8200__E.pdf
The case number on yours – 4-R12683 – and the six figure serial number suggest to me that it is not one of the early models, so I would think it is from February 1988 (from the first two digits of the number – ’82’). ‘GN-4W-S’ is the case type code, indicating a water resistant design with screw on back.
Thank you for the quick response. I assumed it was a redial as I purchased the watch from India. The redial doesn’t bother me as I like the watch for what it is. I was hoping it was a little older, just for the cool factor. Any idea as to what the original dial color could have been? I realize there is no way to tell for sure.
Hi Derek, I’m afraid I can’t find any images of the original dial for this model, so I can’t help with the colour it was.
Thank you for looking. Well, at least I know the watch is a mid to late 80s watch.
You’re welcome, it’s a shame no images can be found of an original model.
Good morning, Stephen. Glad I stumbled upon your terrific blog.
I was about to jump on a couple of great looking vintage Citizens until I realized (thx to you) that they are repainted dials, new or buffed dial windows, and condition-unknown guts. The seller must be buying the old watches by the barrel, in order to re-dial, polish, re-strap, and sell these for 20 USD shipped!
Ebay is often “too good to be true”.
Great looking watches though! At least by the sales photos that don’t show the case backs. Are they worth it in your opinion, since they are not actually “vintage”? I think new /newer Eagle 7’s can be had for <$100.
Thanks, Stephen. I have a couple other questions for another day.
Hi Marvin, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment.
There are a lot of these re-dialled watches sold out of India. I guess that they are rescuing beat up / worn out watches that would otherwise be scrapped. And as long as you know what you are buying that is fair enough since the asking price is low, and this seller doesn’t hide the fact that they have been re-dialled etc. BUT I also notice that they are described as having 17 jewels, and the 8200 automatic was a 21 jewel model, so this is a bit odd. May be an error by the seller, but it rings an alarm bell, especially since there are no photos of the movement or case back.
As a collector and therefore a bit of a purist (or nerd!!) I couldn’t get to like these, but I do understand that if they work, even for a while, $20 is not a bad deal – providing they have the correct movement and you aren’t kidded into buying something you think is original.
Blessed morning. I found this on eBay too. Could you see from the photo that this is the original colour? As for the price, I am willing to try it out. Love the design.
Hi Galvin, thanks for visiting my blog. Can you please post a link so I can have a look at the watch you are interested in, thanks,
My friend and i struggle to get info on a 8200 21 jewel,
Hi Bob, thanks for visiting my blog. I’m travelling at the moment so can’t do a full reply. Should be able to comment in a couple of days.
Hi Bob, apologies for the late reply – you have one of the early models using the 8200 automatic movement. This movement was first made in 1976, and your model number (71-0423) is listed in my 1977 case parts catalog. The date of yours is later than this though since the serial number (10601412) gives a date (from the first three figures) of June 1981. 4-164024 is the case number which would have helped a watchmaker order parts when doing a service, and ‘GN-4’ is the case type, showing it is a water resistant type with a screw on case back. Some more info on the movement is here: https://sweep-hand.org/2013/01/27/the-8200-movement-citizens-standard-auto/
Thank you for your reply , Do they hold any value in their original Condition i cant seem to find on like it
Hi Bob – you’re welcome. I’m afraid the 8200 models don’t have any great value, even in original and good condition. This movement was used for over 30 years so there are many on the second hand market, and although a sound and reliable movement they are not ‘high end’ so are not so attractive to collectors and others.
Hello i found your website and found it very interesting i really like it, you definitly are a CITIZEN expert !
I dont want to bother you but i’ve seen everybody is asking you info about watches they so i thought you could help me learn more about this watch:
What can you tell me about this ? there’s a picture of the back with serial etc.. And it is stated in the description also (dial model number too).
Hi Jerome, thanks for visiting my blog. I’m afraid I don’t know too much about this watch, other than it has the 8200 automatic movement in it that Citizen used over many years. It is more recent than the time period I know best – the earliest it could be is November 1987, but it could possibly 1997. I would suggest you look for other examples of the same model to check that it appears all correct.
I have found a citizen 21 jewels automatic with glas on both sides by cleaning up downstars. The number is 8200-r01860 Rw
or p-8200-r09141-ky , i don’t know which is the relevant one.
I would be very thankful , for any informations und an idea for the price i can sell it.
Nice greatings from germany,
Hi Richard, thanks for visiting my blog. 8200-r01860 is the model number, which is useful for finding information. There’s some information on the 21 jewel 8200 automatic here: https://sweep-hand.org/2013/01/27/the-8200-movement-citizens-standard-auto/
I avoid trying to value watches, since so many factors can affect it. It’s probably best to search eBay to find a similar model to get an idea of what it might be worth.
Hello, sorry If this is a double post. again love this page and thank you for all that you do!!!
Need info on this beautiful piece.
4-638909 space k
the 6 could also be a 0
Thank you so much in advance
Hi Mike – thanks for visiting my blog and for you kind comment. I’m not finding any reference to case numbers 4-638909 or 4-038909 I’m afraid. Can you post a link to a photo? If not can you please describe what’s on the face of the dial, and particularly can you see a dial code, in small print at the very bottom of the dial, usually under the 6 o’clock marker. Assuming this is an 8200 automatic, the serial number – 631235 – is not one of the early ones, which would usually have 8 digits, so it’s likely to be from 1986 or even 1996. The 8200 was produced for over 30 years so dating them can be tricky. 1990s models tend to have a different type of case number though, so 1986 is more likely in my opinion. The case type code will actually be GN-4-W-s, which denotes a water resistant case and crystal with a screw down back.
Stephen, Hi thanx for lightning response. how can i upload you or email you pictures?
dial number is 8200 T23138-KY
Thanks Mike – email sent, as you know 🙂
Hi ser!! My uncle gave me a citizen 7eagle 21jewels before he died black face, gold plated i dont have idea if it is oreginal one!!it is 8200-R02092 RC…850999 GN-4w-S!!wish you give me a ideas!!
Hi Jarwin, thanks for visiting my blog. As far as I know your watch is genuine, and is one of the later Eagle 7 models, probably from 1998. It has the 8200 automatic movement inside which was first produced around 1976. Here’s more info on the movement: https://sweep-hand.org/2013/01/27/the-8200-movement-citizens-standard-auto/
I have a Citizen model 4-281080-KT and noted water on the inside of the crystal after a week or so of receiving it. As with all my autos I shower with it on. I tinker with these watches so I opened it up and noticed no gasket at all. My question is did this model come with a gasket and if so can you direct me to where I can buy a generic replacement. I mention attaining a generic because Citizen tells me that it is non-US watch so they offer no parts or specifications to assist me.
Hi Peter, thanks for visiting my blog. Your watch should certainly have a case back gasket. The original part number is 393-0300. I’m afraid I don’t know where to go for a generic replacement, but I would have thought a decent watch guy would be able to find something suitable. The usual advice about vintage watches is not to shower or swim with them even when they have got the gaskets in place.
I recently stumbled on a functional citizen watch. The cover had “citizen watch co 4-062019 SMT 80442709 GN-4-S 71-0920 Japan GP. The movement has “citizen watch co 8200A unadjusted twenty-one 21 jewels” written. Please I would like to know if its genuine and date of manufacture if possible.
Hi David – the case back info all looks correct, and the model number (4-062019) is an authentic one. So it sounds it all seems correct. The production date is not straightforward since the 8200 movement was in production for well over 30 years. The earliest it could be is April 1978, but it could be April 1988. Can you tell me what is on the dial, since this might help pin the production date down? Is there a dial code below the 6 o’clock marker? Stephen
Thanks sweephand. “8200-062008-SM” is all I saw below the 6 o’clock marker. Could it be the dial code?
Hi David – yep, that’s the dial code and that all looks fine too. Does the dial have an ‘Eagle 7′ motif applied to it? If not yours is most likely from 1978. If it does have the’Eagle 7’ mark then it is likely to be from 1988. Stephen
Thanks sweephand. It doesn’t have the ‘eagle 7’ mark.
Ok, then it is probably 1978 🙂 Stephen
Hi, I am reading your forum with interest and am sat here hoping you can advise me like you have helpfully done to many others.
I have in my hand what I think is an 8200 automatic. Here’s some info.
Inside the circular tract it say
All stainless steel
Then inside the track in this order:-)
It’s 21 Jewel, with a green face with the day in two different languages. I guess that might be English and Japanese?
The strap is leather it shows little wear so I’m assuming that’s been replaced.
Can you tell me anything useful please?
Hi Mark, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment. You do indeed have an 8200 automatic, made in January 1979 (from ‘901’ at start of serial number). The second language is most likely Japanese – ‘Kanji’ as its known. I referenced the very same model, although with a blue dial, in a post back in 2013 where you can find some more information: https://sweep-hand.org/2013/01/27/the-8200-movement-citizens-standard-auto/. There is also some more info about 8200 models in one of my ‘Featured Watch’ posts: https://sweep-hand.org/2014/10/12/the-weeks-featured-watch-62-the-adorex-8200/
I’m sure you’re right that the strap will be a recent addition – it’s very rare to find original leather these days unless if is a watch that has never been sold or worn.
Hi! May someone please help me to tell, if this watch i got is a real citizen or a fake one ? https://s18.postimg.org/nds2ymb1l/s_l400.jpg
Hi Dumi, thanks for visiting my blog, and apologies for my slow reply. I’m afraid I don’t know the quartz models too well, so I can’t advise for sure whether it is real or fake. Stephen
Hi. I’m looking some info about citizen watch. I been looking everywhere and only on your blog I could find some information.
On front under 6 is serial number P-8200-RO9132-KY
On the back is going in order
Citizen watch co.
Base metal to
Can you give me any more info about it please and thank you Marzena
Hi Marzena, thanks for visiting my blog. Your watch is one of the ‘Eagle 7’ models, using Citizen’s 8200 automatic movement. This movement was first made around 1976, and was in production for over 30 years, so dating them can be difficult. The Eagle 7 models first appeared around 1980, and were made for a long time. The style of the case number – 4-RO2092 – suggests to me that it is not one of the earlier ones, so I think it is from December 1992 (see the first three figures in the serial number). ‘GN-4W-S’ is the case type code and indicates that it is a water resistant type with a screw down back. If you search this blog with ‘8200’ you can find more examples and a bit more information. Stephen
Hi Sweep, I love the size and look of these Citizens…so comfy on the wrist
I just got in an almost NOS example of an Eagle 7 with a beautiful deep blue dial
#s are: 4-824008 K
It looks more like an 50s style watch which would make it born in August, 1983
Do you think it could be 1993, or even 2003?
Any more clues to tell year of mfg on these late model Eagle 7s?
Hi Tom, thanks for visiting my blog. It’s difficult to be sure about production dates since the 8200 movement was in production for well over 30 years, and the Eagle 7’s had a long production run too. But there are a couple of stylistic clues to help – first, the 8 figure serial number is more typical of earlier models – later ones were typically six figure, sometimes including a letter. Second, the case number – 4-824008 – is also typical of earlier models, since it includes the ’82’ movement reference. So I’d say this one is from 1983.
Stephen; I would post a pic on here if I knew where to do so, but I think you’re right on the date
It LOOKS like an 80s piece, it’s 95%+ condition. Definitely a keeper. These little things get me more excited than a rolex would. Now to find a similiar condition Bull Head, which wont be easy. Thanks!
You’re welcome Tom 🙂 Good luck with your search for a bullhead. NB: visitors aren’t able to post pics here,. only links. Stephen
Meant to say EIGHTIES style watch, sorry
I recently got an Eagle 7 with the following serials at the caseback: 4-R11547 RC 8N0177 GN-4W-S. I’d like to know more about this variant like year released, or anything noteworthy. I’m looking on expanding my Citizen collection especially the Eagle 7s Thanks in advance!
Hi Anthony. Other than what you can find here about the 8200 movement, I would add that this model is a later one – this is based on the style of the case number, which contains the letter ‘R’. Earlier models are all numbers. The same applies to the serial number, which also contains a letter and is six digits long. Earlier serial numbers are all numerical and 8 digits long, maybe 7 sometimes. So I would think that this one is from November 1998.
Wow thanks for that info Stephen! I never thought this model would be from the late 90’s. Would you know if Eagle 7’s are still in production? I’ve read somewhere that they’re now exclusive in the Asian market and other blogs stated they’re not being produced anymore, new pieces in jewelers and watch retail outlets are possibly the last of the series. Anyway here’s the exact watch I’m talking about, someone wrote about it in their blog: http://jampilihan.blogspot.com/2010/05/citizen-eagle-7-rm180.html. I really love this watch, from its look, size, and of course its heritage. I’m looking forward in acquiring more Eagle 7’s!
I’m afraid I don’t know whether Eagle 7’s are still in production, or when Citizen ceased production if not. In good condition they are reliable watches and can be very accurate. Stephen
Very nice blog!
I want to ask you if you know if this is a redial or not?
Hi Slin, thanks for your kind comment. I think that watch has been re-dialled. The outer ring looks wrong, seems to be used just to fill the gap. Also, the applied Citizen logo looks typical of re-dials to me. Stephen
Thanks for this info! Now I look differant at bying Citizen’s because of your info.
I try to look at the 6 o’clock position and then determine if it”s legit and the caseback, I already bought one wich said “Japan Made” at the 6 o’clock.
Just starting collecting so these are helpfull thins to look at.Thanks!!
Further I like to know how I can send pictures towards you(via email?) about a couple Citizen’s parawater i’ve bougt recently. Two parawaters with waterproof on the front en parawater on the caseback.
Hi Slin – email sent 🙂 Stephen
Slin; What to look for are the numbers BELOW the six…the redone dial ones never have that they simply say nothing or Japan made You will find a lot of redials on ebay just take the time to look closely below six and you’ll weed out the redos…Good Luck!
Yes, thanks! Sometimes it is hard to see the numbers below 6 o’clock on the internet.
Greetings from Holland..
Good luck Slin – don’t hesitate to ask here if you want to check anything out before you buy. Stephen
Thanks! I will ask but the watches I look for are not that expensive and somethimes I take a chance hoping it will turn out nice;), with this info of your blog I can protect myself even more.
By the way, did you receive my photos? It went a little wrong with my email client;)
Especially the one with the silver dial I’m curious about…love that watch and I even don’t care if it is not real:).I paid E35 for it and I wear it regularly.
The numbers of this one on the back are:
If I’m not wrong this watch is from March 1970?
Correct me please if I am wrong and pardon my english…
I got your emails, thanks, although the pics aren’t opening too happily tonight so I’ll get comments to you on all of them, probably be tomorrow. As for the silver dial one, it’s fine – it is indeed from March 1970, and has the 1810 ‘Homer’ date movement. Your English is fine too 🙂 Stephen
Wow… I didn’t know that! Homer 1810 movement….beautifull. I will search here on the blog.
Good advice Tom 🙂
Guys now is the time to pick up a few choice ones…cheap. Citizens are very underappreciated watches. I got a 1983 Eagle 7 that’s almost NOS with a beautiful deep blue dial gives me more satisfaction to admire and wear it than does my Rolex! Especially when I think of how little I actually paid…
Tom, where did you find the NOS Eagle 7?
I love these old Citizen autos, but the vast majority of what I see on ebay is repainted trash from India. Last year I even bought one from a US dealer, and it was beautiful, until a couple of dial markers fell off! The dealer said she didn’t know (?) it was an Indian refurb.
Btw, I’ve picked up a few of the redialed pieces, knowingly, and accordingly paid very little for them.
Marvin; Just a fluke, I have ANOTHER like NOS one I’m going to sell bot both from same guy
it’s the real deal as well, go to my website and fill out a request form I’ll send you pics if you give me your email address by doing that…
Estimado Sweephand, gran aporte el tuyo para dar a conocer tu pasión. Tengo un reloj citizen 8200 802210 DHS, con cristal biselado, fondo amarillo, águila con centro rojo, que compré en Chile, aproximadamente el año 2010, idéntico a uno que me hurtaron que me regaló mi madre el 2006, comprado también en Chile. Es original y japones?. Muchas Gracias por tu gran aporte. Saludos desde Chile
Hola Carlos, gracias por visitar mi blog y disculpas por mi respuesta tardía. Hay muy poca referencia a este modelo en Internet. ¿Tiene alguna foto que pueda mirar?
No puedes publicar una foto aquí, pero puedes publicar un enlace si has subido imágenes a un sitio como Photobucket. Si eso no es posible, puedo enviarle un correo electrónico directamente si lo desea.
Por favor, hágamelo saber y enviaré un correo electrónico. Stephen
Stephen and Carlos,
If you happen to get a photo of this watch please also post it on your pages for us to enjoy. Thanks!
Hi Marvin – will do 🙂
Gracias Stephen por responder a alguien que te habla desde tan lejos (Chile).
Hola Carlos, eres bienvenido 🙂 He eliminado tu dirección de correo electrónico ya que este es un blog público. Veo su correo electrónico de todos modos cuando publica un comentario. Enviaré un correo electrónico muy pronto. Stephen
Hi sweephand. I’m looking some info about citizen watch. I been looking everywhere but i can’t find any info about this so plz help me,Its logo of 7 eagle 21 jewels
On the front 8200-R48979-Y
And on the back side is
Citizen Watch CO.
Bass Metal YP
Thanks for visiting my blog, and apologies for my slow reply. Your watch is one of the Eagle 7 range, with the 8200 automatic movement. This movement was first produced around 1976, and was made for over 30 years. From the style of the case back markings on yours, I think it most likely from 1990 (from the first figure in the serial number – 060300). Other information you can find on my blog will tell you more about the movement which is a solid and reliable one, which can be also be very accurate. Stephen
Sweep-hand, I have a (silver with black face) Citizen automatic 21 jewels P-8200-S82717-HSK (English/Spanish) marked CITIZEN WATCH CO., WATER RESIST, STAINLESS, 4-039181 HST, 627255, GN-4-S. Could you possibly tell me the age/date of manufacture? Should I assume September 1982?
Hi Steve, thanks for visiting my blog. The first two figures in the serial number (627255) give the production year and month. Although the 8200 models were produced for over 30 years, I think yours is most likely from February 1986 (’62’). The dial code (which I guess is where you got September 1982 from) is only a part number. Stephen
Thanks Stephen. After stumbling upon a variety of references to your website (from others) I’m glad I did. I had thought the ‘S’ and 82 might be the answer from the S82717. Love my old Eagle 7 and, although not mint, wouldn’t trade it’s reliable and dependable automatic function for another. So once again… thanks Stephen and the Sweep-hand team.
You’re welcome 🙂
Hi sweephand, I happened upon this post and wanted to find out a bit more about an Eagle 7 that I have purchased from Etsy a few years ago.
It has a grey dial with a white horizontal stripe across the middle, which on it saids Citizen, automatic, 21 jewel on the left, and the day/ date on the right.
Nothing else marked on the dial, assuming that it probably has been refurbished.
On the back, in a circle formation, stainless steel and water resistance. Then the following details inside the circle:
Thanks in advance!
Hi Tofumaru, thanks for visiting my blog and apologies for my late reply. Your watch has the 8200 automatic movement and is one of the Eagle 7 range which was launched in the early 1980s. The first three figures in the serial number tell us that it was made in August 1982. For more info on the 8200 movement see here: https://sweep-hand.org/2013/01/27/the-8200-movement-citizens-standard-auto/
I just bought citizen automatic diving caliber 8200 model NH8384-14E about 1 month ago.
It was very nice looking watch, but I found out that the time movement always keep on moving faster and faster then actual time or the time I’ve set it manually before. Especially when I’m wearing it frequently and everyday.
Meaning I wont get an accurate & sharp time compare to quartz engine watch. Even though the seller gave me some tips, to control the time from moving too fast or too slow.
For example one of the tips, they advise me to put the watch vertically with the winding crown uppermost to lose second if it is too fast at night when I’m not wearing it.
Or to put the watch flat with the dial uppermost TO GAIN a few second if it is too slow.
Is this a normal problem to all automatic & mechanical watches bro??? 😦
Hi Syed, thanks for visiting my blog. Mechanical watches cannot keep time as accurately as quartz models, but they can be adjusted to run within a few seconds a day if they are in good condition and the parts are not suffering from a lot of wear. I think the accuracy of the 8200, which is not a high end movement so it was not fine tuned when it was made, left the factory running to something like + or – 15 to seconds per day. As the seller told you movements do perform slightly differently in different positions so some adjustment can be made that way, but if yours is running too fast, and outside the factory settings, then it needs attention. A watchmaker or knowledgeable amateur can adjust the hairspring to see if it will run slower and more accurately if the error is within a minute or two per day. Otherwise the movement probably needs a thorough clean and lubrication (i.e a service) – this would also find whether parts are needed if they are worn out. Stephen
Thanks a lot for your clear explanation, I’ve got very important watch knowledge today from you! (‘parts are not suffering from a lot of wear’) this quote from you that interest me and might be my solution. FYI I’m riding a superbike everyday to work, two ways distance it’s about 80km with wearing the watch also to work every day.(soo excited new watch)
Maybe because lots of movement effect my automatic watch part engine. I’ll take your advise try not to wear it while riding to work everyday so that, not many movement involved.
But if the problem too fast still happen than, definitely I’ll need go back to the seller… to do some service, because it was a brand new watch and still under warranty for 2 years.
Again… thank you very much, Stephen!
Lastly Stephen if you don’t mind, any tips or list what are the high end caliber(rather than 8200 which was low end) you can share with us here? 😉
Hi Syed- if it’s a new watch, I would leave it running (it can be hand wound) but not wear it on your bike for a few days, to see whether it still runs fast. If it does, it can be adjusted and then you can see if it can run more accurately or whether there is a problem with it. Are you wanting to know what modern Citizen calibre is high-end, or vintage ones? Stephen
Yes you absolute rite bro, when I’m totally stop wearing it while riding my bike this two days. It works and runs normal, no more few second fast sickness. Thank u Dr, Watch Stephen! 🙂
Ooohhh… sorry I meant the modern ones or latest Citizen model not vintage, Dr.
Sorry for this late reply – you could try wrapping your watch in a soft cloth and putting in a pocket whilst you are riding. That may reduce the harshness of vibrations compared to what you get through the handle bars. If that works, then you can still wear your watch the rest of the time 🙂
I don’t know the modern mechanical watches very well, but I know there are some ‘Signature’ and ‘Campagnola’ watches that are mechanical and high beat (28,800 beats per hour). I think the Campagnola movements are actually Swiss, after Citizen bought the ‘La Joux-Perret’ company. Stephen
Hi iam Alekh,
I have a citizen automatic 21 jewels watch
Model number is like this JAPAN -N-8200-R78215-Y
what is the price of this watch?
Please help me….
Hi Alekh, thanks for visiting my blog. I.m afraid I don’t attempt to give valuations here, not least because there are many variables which affect the value/price of a watch. You have an ‘Eagle 7’ model and I can say that in general terms, they do not have great value. They were made in great numbers over a period of years, so there are many of them about and for sale – try searching eBay to see whether you can find similar examples to get an idea of price. Stephen
Thank you so much Stephen
You’re welcome. Stephen
citizen watch co.
base st. steel
What is the production date of this 8200 automatic?. In the Eagle 7 logo there is a blue mark. Why?
Hi Thamalka – I think that is from 1995, since the style of the numbers are later ones. Don’t know why the Eagle has a blue mark, probably just a design variation. Stephen
what is NOS type?
Hi Thamalka – NOS = ‘New Old Stock’, which usually means that the watch has not been sold previously, so it is shop stock. Stephen
Hi sweephand , i will be acquiring a 51.2273, with the SN 1080xxx ! I deduce that this is Sept. 1981 ….. am i right 😊 dial is P8200 , water resist , 150 M . This will be my first vintage Citizen, and your blog is a big help ! Thank you !
Hi Mike, thanks for visiting my blog and I’m glad it has been useful. August 1981 in fact if you’ve typed the serial number correctly 🙂 Stephen
You’re right its August 1981 , thanks a lot Stephen
You’re welcome 😀
Good afternoon! I have old watch,
CITIZEN Automatic 21 jevels
from the forward party it is written :
Japan 8200 823254 ka
from a reverse side it is written :
I want to learn more about these hours, and also what their approximate cost, hours in good, a state, I work, scratch glass…
Hi Van S. thanks for visiting my blog. Your watch is a fairly early model to use the 8200 automatic movement which was first produced around 1976. There’s more information on the movement here: https://sweep-hand.org/2013/01/27/the-8200-movement-citizens-standard-auto/ The first three figures in the serial number give a production date of March 1978. If you are interested in value, please search eBay for similar watches to get an idea since I don’t try to do valuations. In general terms the 8200 models are not of great value since they were produced for over 30 years and many thousands were sold. Stephen
Many thanks for information and time spent by you!
Now I know, year of release of my hours! It is already good!
You’re welcome 😀
Thank you for the Awsum blog. You are doing such a great job. Hatsoff to you!!!
I am a vintage watch collector, i like to know about one of my collection which is Citizen Bull Head Chronograph Watch.
The details on the back side of the watch are:
I like to know the year/month of the manufacture of the watch and other details. I highly appreciate your valuable inputs on it.
Adding with my earlier details i am providing details of my another Citizen Bull Head Chronograph Watch.
The details on the back side of the watch are:
Much appreciate your comments on it.
Manikandan A S
Hi Manikandan, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment. Good to see that you have two examples of the stainless steel octagonal bullhead – very nice watches. These were made for only a few years around the end of the 1970s, and being all stainless steel they are the more desirable models in the bullhead range. There’s more info on the model here: https://sweep-hand.org/2015/01/27/this-weeks-featured-watch-67-67-9356-chronograph/
The first three figures in the serial numbers give the production year, so once you know which decade(s) they were made in you can be sure of production dates – so yours are from February 1979 and July 1980. Stephen
Thanks for your time on replying it. It is a detailed reply with all the information which I was looking for.
Thank you for your blog and your time….
Manikandan A S
You’re welcome, and thanks for your thank you 🙂 Stephen
There is a company in India that sells hundreds of used Citizen watches including the 8200 movement. They also sell quite a number of new unused 1970s and 1980s models. I have bought half a dozen of the latter and they work reliably. They have the day of the work in Urdu and English. Not a problem.
Hi Ian, thanks for visiting my blog. I know Citizen licenced the HMT company to make Homer watches for many years, and this was probably the same with the 8200 automatic too, so will be a ready supply in India. Stephen
Hi Sweephand, how are you? I’ve sent you a message here but I think it did not register. Anyway, I have my eye on a vintage Citizen, but I don’t know if it’s in good condition or even if its legit. Looks like it has some corrosion and some scratchs on the inner side.
Shouldn’t the jewels have a purple like colour too? Sorry, I don’t much about watchs.
Hi Darth, thanks for visiting my blog – I haven’t seen a message from you so don’t know what happened with that. Although the movement, case and back are authentic the dial and hands are not original. They are quite poor replacements – the quality of the dial is far from what an original Citizen would have. The applied logo and the lume pips are not very good, and there is no dial code, which an original would have. I’m not sure what’s been done to the case – it looks to have lost it’s sharp edges. Maybe it’s been re-plated after being over polished. The movement looks like it may have been over oiled and is dirty. Jewels should have a purple colour, although sometimes lighting may affect how well or not this can be seen in a photo. My advice would be to avoid this one! Stephen
Hi, Stephen. I want to consult whether my identification of this watch is correct or not. Here is the information:
Citizen Automatic 21 Jewels (Japanese Domestic Market) Cal. 8200A
Case Number: 4-062094 SMT
Serial Number: 10480200
Model Number: 71-1012
Is it correct that this watch was made in April 1981?
The case back pic: https://scontent-sit4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25398663_175981129658029_3841172653244605658_n.jpg?oh=a180c883096b801c90f646e14edffd1d&oe=5AC699D7
The dial pic: https://scontent-sit4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25399030_175981146324694_1809414062393344793_n.jpg?oh=72f8b9bf24a86ec4e177dd2beaa39b1c&oe=5ABD767F
Thank you so much, Stephen. Your blog is among the best for Citizen aficionados.
Hi, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your kind comment. The watch looks ok to me – the 8200 auto’s are often re-dialled, but this looks original. And yes, I agree that it is from April 1981.
wow this very cool because it is exactly my birth month and year. yes redialing issue always make me worried so I always avoid buying from Indian seller on ebay. by the way, Stephen I still got question to ask. How we identify Citizen with 6 digits serial number like this one? The dial resembles to CTY57-1271 but I’m not sure. What do you think?
CITIZEN WATCH CO.
The back case: https://scontent-sit4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25395995_176149392974536_1290124577891785344_n.jpg?oh=38eb5d9c34910205a1bfdcb1764051ea&oe=5AB49696
The dial: https://scontent-sit4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25445918_176149359641206_6187291892798279638_n.jpg?oh=d846ca80ba35b271e8535e63583005f9&oe=5AC96330
Back, dial and side: https://scontent-sit4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25498039_176149762974499_230056678989800236_n.jpg?oh=77a6fef306bdf46294a441ef89b7712f&oe=5AD723AB
The 4-S81055 does look very like the ‘The Citizen’ (CTY57-1271) which is a very nice high end auto with the 0910 movement, with an associated high end price 🙂 It’s a simple and elegant design, and the 8210 (date only version of the 8200) is a sound and reliable movement so it’s a good value alternative. The design of the case back and the style of the case number (with letter included) indicates a later production date, so I guess this one is 1991. Stephen
hi, stephen. me again. is this Citizen is from April 1981 or 1991? Because I read that Citizen produced the Cal. 8200 for 30 years.
It is Citizen Automatic with number 7 with wings logo. Is it Eagle 7 or what? It is in white dial with fluted bezel like Rolex oyster.
Case number: 4-063333 SMT
Serial number: 10487875
Case back: https://scontent-sin6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26165984_507528596293830_893782172690068986_n.jpg?oh=d471aa118db34a0a1cd305c9b058c371&oe=5AFE8844
the caliber is 8280A with 17 jewels by the way https://scontent-sin6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26166582_507588742954482_396481264091362498_n.jpg?oh=fcc7bcab64a7443e897a44f41a2f592f&oe=5AFAE2D5
Hi Gugunarief, sorry for my late reply. I have seen one or two of these 17 jewel versions, with the different ‘7’ logo. I don’t think they are truly Eagle 7 models, but are similar. The case number (4-063333) is an authentic one. I have seen one example that is the same as yours, and one with a different dial and an 8210 (hand winding) movement inside. The SSPD code means that the bezel is palladium plated. If the dial code is correct – should start with 8280 – then I think it’s genuine and I would think it’s from 1981. Stephen
I have an older Citizen automatic with this movement that for a time I wore just about 24/7, in bed, the shower and everyplace else, for I suppose a year or two… it was uncannily accurate, I basically never had to adjust it, months on end with apparently no more than a few seconds net variation. As an amateur watch fiddler, I find the movement a bit more of a pain to service vs. the average Seiko automatic, because the plate is so broad, and alignment during assembly a little trickier… that said, for people who know what they’re doing it’s pretty easy. The movement also isn’t very attractive to look at IMO, but at this price point, nobody’s looking…
Hi Eric, thanks for visiting my blog. Good to hear your story about the 8200 – very sound and reliable movements which have been in production since the mid-1970s. I am not a watchmaker but I have heard that they are a bit harder to work on, partly and ironically because they had a simpler production process. Stephen
Hello Stephen and happy New Year!
My name is Andrey, I’m your follower from Russia.
Not long ago I got “new” old Citizen Eagle 7 watch in excellent condition on caliber 8200. I replaced new glass and made full service to the caliber.
Please help me to know the year it was produced. I send you also pictures of this watch.
There are some numbers on display near “6” o’clock mark: P-8200-R05773-KY.
And on the back:
By the serial number I can guess that it was August of 1983 or August of 1993. Unfortunately, I couldn’t get any citizen catalogues from 1983 and 1993, but the design of the watch case more similar to 1980-s than to 1990-s. And the inscription “CITIZEN” instead of “CITIZEN WATCH CO” also tells that it is more older watch. I think, it was produced in 1983. Am I right?
I’m waiting for your answer.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Andrey, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your kind wishes. Apologies for my slow reply. I would normally say that watches with letters in h case number (4-R00804) are later ones, so I’m inclined to think it is 1993. Citizen marked backs with ‘Citizen Watch Co’ in the 1970s, so just ‘Citizen’ may also indicate he later date. Stephen
Hi, I want to buy a Citizen 8200. I am atracted to these watches:
What do you think? They are original? And – original or not – what’s the year of fabrication? Thank you very much!
Hi Jacques, thanks for visiting my blog. These are all non-original – although they have 8200a movements they have been re-dialled and all have the same case back. Authentic Citizen dials do not have ‘JAPAN MADE’ on them. I would think these have been re-plated and put together fairly recently so it’s impossible to give a production date. Stephen
Thanks again! Your answer is very helpful.
I already have a vintage Citizen. I bought it in 2016. I don’t know the name of the model or of the movement, but I can tell you it’s a 25 jewels automatic movement and the watch looks exactly like this one: http://www.ceasuridemana.ro/ceas-citizen-automatic-model-rar_a259505.html (I have photos of my watch, but I must put them on a site and I don’t know how to do it). You can’t open the first photo, if you click on it, so, for seeing all photos you must click on the last one, than use the left arrow to see the rest, including the first one. My watch is identical, except it has blue dial and the days of the week are in Italian. It’s from march 1972. It’s 100% original. It looks and works great. I think it’s a pretty rare model, I saw only a few on internet, and none in this configuration (blue dial, red second hand, days in Italian).
Hi Jacques, what you have is one of what are known as Citizen’s ‘Square Custom’ models. These use the 72 movement which was first produced in 1969. They also made them with the earlier 52 movement in the late 1960s. You don’t see many of these, and although I have seen grey and black dials with this case number I don’t recall a blue one, so it is quite rare. I have seen a blue dial on another ‘Square Custom’, but not in this type of case. This is a much better watch than those 8200’s! Stephen
Thanks for the info! I can send you photos of my watch in an e-mail, if you are interested, it’s enough to send me a message on this adress. If you’re not interested, just say so and I won’t bother you anymore. 🙂
You’re welcome Jacques. Email on the way – I’d like to see the blue dial 🙂
hiya , my name is luke and i recently bought a old 21 jewel automatic citizen but i am not sure anything more than that about it , i was wondering if you could help.
On the front is says , p-japan-p6200-815715 KA
and on the back it says
Hi Luke, thanks for visiting my blog. I think the number on the dial is 8200, since you have an 8200 automatic, which I reckon was made in July 1982. This date is given by the first three figures in the serial number (207). The 8200 was made for over 30 years, starting around 1976, but I think this is 1982 from the case and model numbers (4-038126 & 71-3490) are typical of that period. GN-4-S is the case type code, meaning that it has is a water resistant design with a screw down back. The P-JAPAN-P mark indicates that the dial and hands were originally lumed with a mildly radio-active paint (promethium) – more info here: https://sweep-hand.org/2014/12/04/radioactive-lume/
For more info on the 8200 movement see here: https://sweep-hand.org/2013/01/27/the-8200-movement-citizens-standard-auto/
Hi and thanks for alot of information about these great watches. I have a question regarding an old clock I bought thats renovated. I set the date for the clock to todays date, and the time. But I wonder how it works so the clock is correct also the next month? I mean, some months have 30, some 31 days?
hi Jimmi, hanks for visiting my blog. I have a mechanical (pendulum) wall clock with day and date wheels (I love it!). When it reaches the end of the month it needs adjusting or it will move to 31, 32 etc. So when it needs to be adjusted, the date wheels can be moved on to get to 01. The wheels have a little tab that projects below the casing into the pendulum opening so they can be carefully rotated anti-clockwise until the date is right. Here’s my clock – is yours similar?
I have question. could you please help…?
I have 8200A, but it’s 17 Jewels.
dial code : JAPAN 8200-820140-K
Case Back Code :
CITIZEN Watch co.
is it true that 8200A is 17 jewels ?
I open the case back, the rotor says 8200A 17 JEWELS.
Hi, thanks for visiting my blog. Your watch is fine, there is a 17 jewel version of the 8200 auto movement. The 21 jewel version is more common, so it is unusual to see a 17j one. This has reminded me to update the Movement Table which doesn’t refer to the 17 jewel 8200.
hello and thank you for your great article 🙂 I’m a little bit curious about my Citizen watch. I found it in my grandparent’s drawer, in a pristine NOS condition (still in its original box, has an old warranty card, and still has protective plastic on caseback). They bought it in 1981 to gift someone but (gladly) they eventually didn’t. It has 8200 movement and the dial number is : 8200 – 031188 SMS.
The caseback says :
Citizen Watch Co
But it has no JAPAN engraved on it. Is it possible that Citizen made it outside Japan? Is the 8200 movement also made abroad or in Japan? Thanks a lot for your help 🙂
Vincent, could you please post a pic of your watch? It sounds like a great find!
yes Marvin, it is a great find indeed. Sadly it is a bit too old for my age and taste (kinda gold and blingy). So i just store it as my collection.
err…i don’t really know how to post pics on reply column, lol. But i’ll try tomorrow 🙂
Hi Vincent, I’m afraid visitors to my blog aren’t able to post pics directly here. You can post a link if you have uploaded images somewhere, or I can email you and you can send them to me direct. Let me know if you want me to message you. Stephen
Hi Vincent, thanks for visiting my blog. Great to read that you have a Citizen in pristine condition 🙂 It’s not unusual to see 8200’s and other models with no ‘JAPAN’ on he case back. It is often on the dial alongside the dial code, but not always. Citizen did have factories in Mexico and Germany, but I’m not sure whether they made the movements or just assembled the watches. This could explain why ‘JAPAN’ does not feature on them. The serial number shows the date of production was November 1980, which fits with when it was bought of course. Stephen
Hey Steph, thanks for the offer. I’ll be glad to provide the pic of my watch 🙂 Message me and i’ll send it via email….
It doesn’t have JAPAN on the dial either. But i forgot to mention it before, it has ‘P’ on dial code, which, if i’m not wrong, is the code of ‘slightly’ radioactive lume (P-8200 – 031188 SMS).
i see….so it is probably not made in other Asia’s country (such as Korea / PRC). Thanks for the info Steph. Really appreciate it.
sorry about my English btw, i’m not a native speaker, since i live in a non english speaking southeast asia country 😛
Hi Vincent – no need to apologise, your English is fine 🙂 email on the way…
email received 🙂 i’ll send it tonight after work
i already send it Steph, sorry for the wait!
I just picked up this on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Men-039-s-Citizen-D-D-33mm-Automatic-21-J-8200-Wrist-Watch-M3621-/323180926131?nma=true&si=f%252BQY1uKLCMBsi2jY79zkOqyB8YY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Is it legit? Thanks in advance!
Hi Josh, thanks for visiting my blog. The watch you have bought has been re-dialled. The case and movement are probably original although it also looks to me like the case has been heavily re-finished to remove scratches and dings. There are many examples like this on eBay, usually sold by Indian sellers who have replaced worn dials – at least these watches survive and are not scrapped even if they are no longer in an original condition. Sellers should state what work has been done in the description though. Although the case back is worn, I think it is an authentic one. The movement is an 8200. The best way to identify an original dial is to check it has a dial code, which is usually printed below the 6 o’clock marker – these can be hard to see, but will start with ‘8200-‘. Stephen
Hey Sweephand, found a 8200 in a south american market – does the movement seems authentic to you ? https://photos.app.goo.gl/tON1Im6iej1mWP8P2
I forgot to take photos of the front, it was a silver model.
Hi Swen, thanks for visiting my blog. That looks like an 8200 movement to me 😀
Quick update, I’ve acquired the watch and took some more photos of the dial and back.
Would you be so kind as to help me identify which decade is it from ? Thanks so much for the quick reply ! https://photos.app.goo.gl/t4XzOY8jlkSdcgyw1
Hi Swen, thanks for the pics. I’m afraid that this looks like it has been re-dialled. I can’t see a dial code, and the placement of the Citizen applied logo doesn’t look right to me – also the printing doesn’t look fine enough for an original dial. I can’t quite make out the case and model numbers – I think they are appropriate for an 8200 watch, but if you can confirm them it would be helpful. Stephen
Oh really ? that’s a shame, I thought the gross printing was just an effect of age; sorry it’s not visible in the photo, the case numbers are the following:
Citizen Watch Co.
Thanks a lot for all your help Stephen, stumbled across your website by chance and found a great deal of info. Kuddos to you!
Hi Swen – the case back is correct for an 8200 model, and I reckon it is from November 1986 (‘611’ in the serial number). Stephen
Thanks for all your help Stephen!
You’re welcome ☺️
I recently found a Citizen watch in my house, it used to be my fathers when he acquired it in 10th grade, that should be somewhere around 1970’s
Automatic, 21 Jewels,
on the back:
Is this an original automatic 8200 movement? And is there any additional info you can tell me about it?
hi Stephen ,
I recently found a citizen watch from my grandfather house. need your help to get info of the same.
Front side of dial:
Is this an original automatic 8200 movement? And is there any additional info you can tell me about it?
Hi Prabu, thanks for visiting my blog and apologies for my slow reply. As far as I can tell, that’s an authentic 8200 model – the case number (4-S81535) is correct – I would think it’s from 1999. Here’s some info on the 8200 movement:
I have Citizen AUTO MATIC 21 jewels eagle 7 , JAPAN – N – 8200 – 876972 – Y
at the back of the watch: CITIZEN WATCH CO.
4 – R18037 RC
3 3 0 6 3 6
GN – 4W – S
I hope to get more information, about the year of manufacture and the prize, he is also gold plated with good condition, it has scratches, you see them if you are really to the close to the watch, sorry don’t know how to upload pictures here.
I bought a Citizen old Eagle 7 on Taobao.com(a China online store, like eBay). Some trader(I guess they are old watch recyclers) sell lots of Citizen 8200/6651a/6601/6t51, seiko 7009/6309/7s26, orient 46941/46943 and little some Switzerland Movement etc, Most of them Movement don’t work and no back no watchband, they sell them as “Replacement” or training. Citizen 8200 Movement sold randomly about 9.2 USD, but I talk with the seller, use about 12 USD buy this one still work old Eagle 7. I hope to get some information, Production Date and I am not sure it is true or fake.
Sorry, my English is very bad.
positive the bottom：
P-8200-0 30025 SMS
It original with a SEIKO watchband, back open multiple times, I think it has been fixed so still work now:
Seller gift me a Citizen watchband, I am not sure if it is original with other Citizen 8200 Movement.
I can’t open the back to Shooting the Movement(no tools), This is my first automatic watch, but I will buy tools to open it, maybe a few days later
Six hours, work fine
I already buy tool and try to open it, but I failed, also in the watch fix store they can’t open it, unless destroyed back, but it works fine, I don’t want to do this.
There are more pictures here:
I hope to get your reply, Thank you!
Hi, thanks for the links to the pics, and apologies for my slow reply to your previous comments. This looks to me to be an authentic 8200 automatic. The markings on the case back and the dial look correct. The serial number gives the production date, but we need to know the decade it was made in, and this is difficult with 8200’s since they were in production for well over 30 years. From the style of the case and back, and the 8 figure serial number, I think this is from the 1980s. The first three figures in the serial number give the production date, year first then month, so yours is from May 1989 (‘905’) in my opinion. Stephen
Thanks for your reply, Stephen.
btw, someone say the 8200 early model with metal date and week, green ink on movement, after that model with plastic date and week, steel stamp on movement. I also think my Citizen(plastic date and week) from 80s or 90s.
some guys show he bought that old 8200 movement and he fixed them:
You’re welcome 🙂 The information about the early versus late models may well be right. I have an early one, from 1977, in an ‘Adorex’ model, and that has the green ink:
This was before the 8200 became the workhorse auto for Citizen, and no doubt cost savings would have been introduced, for example using plastic instead of metal for certain parts.
I’m afraid I’m not seeing any pics via your links.
I uploaded that pics, a green ink movement with metal date and week, a steel stamp movement with plastic date and week:
thanks for the pics – this is useful reference material, so thank you for your interest and help. Stephen
I opened it today, the movement look like original?
(CITIZEN WATCH CO 8200A)
I thought it was rusted before, but not, just O-ring ageing. I use tape to cover logo, use stainless steel ruler and Epoxy glue the back, easier to open.
Clear it need Acetone, but i don’t have, so more difficult cleaning.
Hi, yes that movement looks fine. And lighter fluid is a good cleaner since it leaves no residue – just be careful not to breathe in the fumes! Stephen
Yes, I will be careful. Thanks for your help!
You’re welcome 🙂
how do you figure out what year ? mine says
Hi Brian, thanks for visiting my blog. The method is to use the first three letters of the serial number (‘102’) to determine year first, then the month. So this is from February (02) of ….. a year ending in 1! The decade of production is needed to get the year, which is usually relatively straightforward, but the 8200 was made for over 30 years. It was first sold in 1975 or 76 so it can’t be earlier than that. The 8 digit numeric serial number suggests that it is a earlier model – later ones often have 6 digits, and may include a letter too. So I would think this one is from 1981.
Thank You that kind of fits my thoughts and I have had the watch since the early 90’s its not had much wrist time and is in good condition I really should wear it more .. Excellent blog (I have booked marked it for later reading) and Thank you again 🙂
You’re welcome, and thank you for your kind comments
Citizen GN-4W-S ( 21JEWELS) PRICE IN INDIA
My name is Sandeep ,
Sir I want to know the price of watch(citizenGN-4W-S) PLS REPLY
Hi Sandeep, thanks for visiting my blog, but I’m afraid to don’t try to do valuations/prices. It’s best just to search eBay for similar watches to get some idea. Stephen
Hi stephen have you ever came across citizen nh6750 model i bought one from ebay but not sure whether its real or not
Hi, thanks for visiting my blog. I don’t know this model, but images on the internet show it as a recent Eagle 7 model from around 2011. The model number appears to be authentic. Stephen
Thanks for all the great information here.
I recently picked up an Eagle 7 with a textured grey dial (horizontal stripes) and am trying to work out the date of manufacture
The printing on the dial below the 6 reads Japan 8200 813241 KA (as best as I can tell)
The case back reads:
Citizen Watch Co
I’m assuming it’s from March 1976 or March 1986 but would appreciate your help.
I also have a Citizen 67-9119 Chronograph from August 1980 that I absolutely love.
Thanks for taking the time,
Hi Jonathan, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment. From the style of the case number and the 8 digit serial number I reckon it’s from 1986. The Eagle 7 models didn’t appear until 1980 or so. And good to see you have a 67-9119 🙂 Stephen
Thank you, Stephen!
You’re welcome 🙂
So I have bought the citizen automatic 21 jewel. 4-281080 Kt. , 011012. 70. Gn-4w-s. 71-2591. What is so special about this watch. Besides I think it’s super rare and love. It
Could you help me figure this watch out completely.
Hi Barton, thanks for visiting my blog. The case number (4-281080) and jewel count mean this is a 8200 automatic. However, I’ve seen quite a few of these with different dials, and they appear to be re-dials using the same cases so I’m afraid I don’t believe they are original pieces. The serial number and model number (71-2591) are always the same, and the serial number is not typical of Citizen. Have you a pic of the dial you could upload? (You can’t post a photo directly here I’m afraid). Stephen
Very intrigued by this one. The seller doesn’t have much info other than it was bought at an auction and is supposed to be NOS from an original Citizen dealer. I am skeptical but the condition and blue dial are really nice. Any info would be greatly appreciated!
Hi Ira, that’s a redial with a non-original case back as well. If you Google the model or case number you’ll find various examples. The seller’s story is nonsense. Hope this helps! 🙂 Stephen
Hey I have the same watch with 8200a movement and would like to know more about the watch.
Thanks for visiting – please tell me what you’d like to know if it’s not covered in this post: https://sweep-hand.org/2013/01/27/the-8200-movement-citizens-standard-auto/ thanks, Stephen
Hey, this an excellent blog and thank you so much for taking out your valuable time to assess models. Your interest for Citizen watches is commendable. I carry a citizen eagle 7 series, at the bottom of the dial it says P-8200-924549SMS.
On the case the serial number is 20301681. Now I tried to follow your posts, but there’s a number below the serial number which says 71-3279. Please help out mate.
Hi Shray, thanks for visiting and for your kind comment. 71-3279 is the model number for your Eagle 7, which uses the 8200 auto movement. Model numbers are often not very helpful these days, but I know that the ’71’ prefix was used for 8200 models. You may have found out that the 8200 and the Eagle 7 range were made for 30 years or so, which makes dating them difficult. Given yours has an eight digit serial number I don’t think it is a later one, so I would think it is from March 1982. Eagle 7’s first appeared in the early 1980s so that fits. The dial code provided the movement number, but also the ‘P’ at the start of it indicates promethium lume is used I believe. Promethium was used by Citizen around that time – it is a mildly radioactive lume, but will not pose a problem these days. If you’ve not found it already, here’s a bit more info on the 8200: https://sweep-hand.org/2013/01/27/the-8200-movement-citizens-standard-auto/
Thank you Stephen!
Can’t stop myself from visiting this blog, the history provided behind timepieces out here is very hard to dig out.
Sorry for my late response – good to be able to help and to hear that you find the blog useful. Stephen
Hi Stephen! I’ve recently made service for my grandpa’s Citizen watches and would like to figure out whether they are original and what is its manufacturing date.
You can see photos by links below:
On front panel there is the lettering: P-8200-R26924-Y
On back one there’s the following:
Thank you in advance for your advice!
Hi Grigory, thanks for visiting. The watch looks entirely original to me, so there’s no problem with authenticity. The production date is more difficult, since the 8200 auto movement was made for over 30 years. Yours is either from 1983 or 1993 – on one hand the fact that it has got an ‘R’ in the case number (4-R00804) might indicate 1993, since earlier models would usually not have a letter in the number. However, the ‘P’ in the dial code relates to Promethium being used in the lume, which would be more likely in 1983! Do you have any info on when your Grandfather might have acquired the watch? Stephen
Stephen, many thanks for your answer! For pity, I don’t have clear info on when he purchased them, but most probably it is early 90s…
I recently picked up a Citizen Automatic with a gold dial and I am trying to work out the date of manufacture as well as if it is authentic or not. It is in a rough shape so I wanted to get it fixed up as much as possible as well.
The printing on the dial down the bottom reads Japan 8200 821685 KA.
The Case Back:
Citizen Watch Co
Base Metal Top
Stainless Steel Back
Thanks for you time,
Hi Phil, thanks for visiting my blog. Looks absolutely fine to me 🙂 One of the best clues to authenticity is the presence of the dial code under the 6 o’clock marker which is present on this one. Production date can be tough on 8200’s since it was manufactured for over 30 years. However, yours looks like an early one, since it is not an Eagle 7 (first appeared in the early 1980s) and has a 4-82xxxx case number. I would think, therefore, that this one is from September 1976, which was the year these were launched. Stephen
Does someone know, if there is any posibility that escapement wheel jewel is turning with it?
Thanks for visiting my blog – I’m not a watchmaker, but I’ve always thought that jewels are fixed in place, and the pivot turns in a cup shaped indentation which is oiled. Stephen