Citizen produced a range of divers in their 1960s and 1970s line-up. A few are relatively well known, but others are not and are rarely seen. This page brings them all together in one place as a reference point. Although I’ve tried to make it as comprehensive as possible, there is little information available elsewhere so I regard it as ‘work in progress’. I hope information can be added later, or errors corrected, with the help of fellow collectors so it as complete as possible. I indicate in the article with a ‘?’ (sometimes with notes as well) where I am not entirely sure about the data I’ve gathered, and I welcome any comments about the information so it can be developed and firmed up over time.
Although this page covers Citizen’s mechanical divers, I appreciate that they also produced some excellent quartz models in the late 1970s, most notably the 600m rated Crystron. They are not included here, at least for the time being, since I have not got the necessary reference material.
I have included dates against each movement number, which is the date I understand the movement was first produced, but this may not be the year when the diver model using that movement was introduced. I believe it’s likely that some divers would not have been brought to the market in the same year the movement was first produced. This is an area of information that I hope can be clarified in the future.
The divers are grouped by depth rating (starting at 100 meters), and I have included only models which can be described as ‘true’ divers, i.e. they have a moveable external or internal bezel, and lumed hands and markers which can be used under water to time a dive. All the divers are automatics.
Case backs are often stamped with the case type in the usual way, e.g. ‘GN-4-S’. However, a number of the models are stamped with an alternative marking for a screw down water proof type, namely ‘OR-O’. This marking is usually seen on divers, but not exclusively so.
Where possible I have credited images I’ve saved from the internet, but many I’m afraid I am unable to credit. I wish to generally acknowledge and credit the owners of these images here, and if you are the owner please let me know, via the ‘comment’ facility, so I can either credit them fully or remove them if you wish. I have used the images only to provide supporting information for this page.
If you have good/better images of any of the models, or indeed any I have missed, and you are happy to let me use them on this page (with acknowledgement of course) please let me know.
Depth Rating: 100 meters
Citizen’s 100m divers are part of the Seven Star range, and two movements were used. The first is the 5270 movement with 21 or 23 jewels, first launched in 1965. This is a non-hacking, hand wind-able calibre running at 18,000 beats per hour (bph). Two case types are used, one a conventional type with external bezel (I believe this is bi-directional) and screw down crown, the other a twin crown type with internal rotating bezel turned by a second crown. NB: I have previously referred to this model as a ‘compressor’ model – however I am now aware that this is not correct, so I have edited this page to reflect that and refer to it as a ‘twin crown’ model. See this post for more information: https://sweep-hand.org/2014/05/01/citizens-so-called-compressor-diver/
The second movement is the 7270 with 21 jewels, a calibre used in the Seven Star V2 range and introduced in 1969, with hand-winding, and running at 21,600 bph. Only models with an external bezel were made with this movement.
Dials and case backs on the Seven Star divers are marked ‘Parawater’ or ‘Waterproof’ (export models?) since they precede the early 1970s when manufacturers had to change to water ‘resistant’.
The Seven Star divers were made with a range of dial colours – black, silver, blue, orange and red, and all had day and date complications (see image galleries). Here are the models in the range:
5270 (21 and 23 jewels): Model Number: 61-5773 / Case Number: APSS 52904-Y (23j) or 4-520858 Y (23j, and 21j, export ‘proof’ model)
‘Proof’ Export Example, with 21 jewels (? original hands):
The orange dialled version of the export ‘waterproof’ model, with many thanks to Vlad for contributing photos of his watch:
5270 (21 jewels): Twin Crowns – Case Number: APSS 2812-Y or 4-520343 Y
There was also a version of this model, maybe only an export version, that had a straoght hour hand, rather than the ‘Mercedes’ type. At the moment this image, from a German brochure (with credit to ‘Axel’ on the old SCWF site) is the only one I have seen:
5270 (21 jewels): Twin Crowns – Case Number: 4-521315 Y, Marked ‘Deluxe’ with separate date and day windows, Crowns at 3 & 4 o’clock
5270 (21 jewels): Twin Crowns – Case Number: 4-520017 Y, Marked ‘Deluxe’ with separate date and day windows, Crowns at 2 and 4 o’clock
7270 (21 jewels): Model Number: 67-5776 / Case Number: 4-720521 Y & 4-721641 Y
(above image courtesy of Steve Oliverio)
(above image courtesy of Steve Oliverio)
(above image courtesy of ‘Techca’)
The Crystal Seven diver:
This is a rare model in the well known Crystal Seven range. Sporting a silver bezel the dial includes a blue chapter ring. The 27 jewel movement is a 5204. The external bezel appears to be unique to this model, with a large circular lume pip not placed within a steel triangle. The crystal is hardened mineral glass, as with all Crystal Sevens which is the source of their model name:
5204 (27 jewels) Crystal Seven: Model Number: none / Case Number: 4-520696
The Dandy Seven diver – the Dandy Seven was a range of more colourful designs from the very end of the 1960s aimed at younger buyers. This rare diver version uses the 5204 27 jewel movement from the ’52’ family (which included the much better known Crystal Seven range). It features the same design of bezel as the Crystal Seven, but in black, and has an acrylic crystal:
5204 (27 jewels) Dandy Seven: Model Number: None / Case Number: 4-520688 Y
Depth Rating: 120 meters
As far as I know, just two models were made with this depth rating – first a Jet Auto Dater using Citizen’s 1120 automatic movement with its circular geared rotor, 19 jewels and date only complication, running at 18,000 bph. This may have been Citizen’s first diver. Although the 1120 was first produced in 1962 it’s probably unlikely that this model was produced quite as early as that – unfortunately no serial numbers are stamped on the case backs, so this is a mystery still to be solved.
I have found examples of black dialled models with external bezel, and just one with what I think was originally a silver white dial – with two types of bezel (?) and two types of hands (?) – I’ve not been able to fully authenticate these variations but my judgement at this stage is that they are original types. The silver dialled version is extremely rare.
The second model is unusual – it is a Super Deluxe, with the 920 movement and 25 jewels, running at 18,000 bph. This is an earlier movement than the 1120 Jet, with the first Super Deluxe seen in 1958, but the very few examples of the diver version I’ve found are from 1965. Although it has an external bezel, and a 120m depth rating, the hands and hour markers are not lumed, so it doesn’t have the functionality required of a true diver, but I feel it should be included at least as a reference to what is a very rare piece. Certainly the case is appropriate since it has a monocoque construction rather then the press on type normally used on Deluxe and Super Deluxe models.
1120 (19 jewels): Jet Auto Dater – Case Number: ADRS51301-DA
I am indebted to Jalaludin Adzali for allowing to include the following two pics of his silver dialled version:
Other hand set – ? original second hand
920 (25) Jewels: Super Deluxe – Case Number: D1307051
Depth Rating: 150 meters
The 150 meter models are Citizen’s largest diver group. For the most part using an almost standard design, they used 6 movements or their derivatives between the mid-1960s through to the early 1980s. The first two models in the listing below – the ‘Crystal Date’ and the high grade ‘Super Auto Dater Professional’ are particularly rare, as is the high-beat 7200 model.
The overall design is the archetypal hefty steel case with black dial and external bi-directional black bezel and, with one exception, large screw down crown. In all but two models the hour hand is the ‘Mercedes’ type (see also notes for each model below). Two models have day as well as date complications, and two have special case backs.
There are several small variations to the bezels and inserts, which I’m not yet fully familiar with, so I hope to include information on that at a later date. With thanks also to Alex for information on hand sets.
1150 (39 jewels) Super Auto Date Professional: Case Number: SADS 52801-Y / 18,000bph / Date Complication / Movement first produced in 1963
Note this is a one-piece case – indicated by an encircled ‘X’ on the back:
Here’s an example of the movement in a different model:
5410 (33 jewels) Crystal Date: Case Number AUDS 52802-Y / 18,000bph / Date Complication / Special Case Back / Movement first produced in 1968
5401 (21 jewels): Model Number: B52806 (export version of the 62-5370, see below) / 18,000bph / Date Complication / Special Case Back, with no serial number / Long Hands / Ball at end of second hand / No lume to right of date /Movement first produced in 1968 (image by ‘1386Paul’):
The special case back has no serial number:
Following image by ‘1386Paul’:
5401 (21 jewels): Model Number: 62-5370 (other than case back, same as B52806 – see above) / Case Number: 4-540115Y / 18,000bph / Date Complication (sometimes red print?) / Long hands / Ball at end of second hand (note: plain steel hand with ‘spear’ shaped short end also offered on 4-540115 – see catalog pic) / No lume to right of date / Movement first produced in 1968
7200 (24 jewels): Case Number: 4-722710 Y / 28,800bph / Day & Date Complications / Long hands / Ball at end of second hand / High-beat, with fine adjuster on balance (as in ‘Leopard’ range / Movement first produced in 1970
7470 (21 jewels): Model Number: 68-5372 / Case Number: 4-740131 Y / 21,600 bph / Date Complication /Long hands / Ball at end of second hand / No lume to right of date / Movement first produced in 1971(?)
6000 (21 jewels): Model Number: 62-6198 / Case Number: 4-600851 Y / 21,600 bph / Date Complication / Short hands / Ball at end of second hand / Red date print / Movement first produced in 1971 / Movement stamped ‘6001’
Known as a ‘Challenge Diver‘, at least this model and the 52-0110 were called Challenge Divers, echoing the Challenge Timer moniker given to Citizen’s 1970s mechanical chronographs:
Note the stamped area is smaller on the earlier case back (left) leaving a slightly wider margin than the later one (right) – images courtesy of ‘1386Paul’ :
The third type of back clearly shows the calibre number (image by ‘Scoobadoo’):
In the spirit of ‘I hope information can be added later, or errors corrected, with the help of fellow collectors so it as complete as possible‘ (see the introductory paragraph at the top of the page) I recently added comments and an image of a 62-6198 with an orange dial and blue bezel provided by ‘1386paul’ – however, ‘Mikko’, who is also a Citizen diver collector, kindly provided some detailed comments about this along with other interesting material, with excellent photos. I have now included this information at the end of the next section on the 52-0110 models since it covers them and the 62-6198.
8210 (21 & 17 jewels): Model Number: 52-0110 / Case Number: 4-820789 Y / 21,600 bph / Date complication (some may have red date print?) / Short hands / Ball not quite at end of second hand / Movement first produced in 1977 (?) – also produced with blue and orange dials
17 Jewels Version – the 52-0110 was also produced with a 17 jewel version of the 8210 movement. It’s quite a rare model, and can be identified externally by the lack of any jewel count on the dial (see also model 51-2273).
One of citizen’s ‘Challenge Diver’ range – see this link: http://tokeibakai.exblog.jp/17252830/ (thanks to Mikko for finding this)
Case back image courtesy of ‘Galpo’:
The 8210 movement rotates in one direction only (image by ‘Galpo’):
Here is the orange dialled model (pic by ‘1386paul’):
And here is an example of the blue dial – please note: the bezel insert is not correct (it’s from a Seiko diver), image from the internet via ‘1386paul’:
17 jewel version (with acknowledgement to the owner, pics from internet):
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Contributions from 1386paul (Paul) and Mikko: I include here the information and comments I’ve received from these two diver collectors, with many thanks to them for taking the time to let me have information and their observations. For clarity, Mikko’s input is italicised.
62-6198 Orange Dial with Blue bezel?
Paul sent me this image of a 62-6198 with orange dial (not his watch, pic is from the internet):
The case is clearly a 62-6198, and Paul is happy that the dial is original to this piece. However, Mikko suggests that the dial is more likely from a 52-0110:
I’m 99% sure that this example of an orange dialled Citizen is actually the rather rare orange dialled 52-0110 with original bezel from a 62-6198. There are several examples for comparison on the internet. Dial details are identical to the black 52-0110 variant I show later in my commentary. Paul’s example also has a black date disk, and a second hand from a 52-0110.
Paul tells me he has examples of the 62-6198 in his collection with black printed date wheels, and with the 52-0110 second hand.
I have looked as closely as I can at this dial and Mikko’s images and agree that the design fits the 52-0110 (see his pics below) so, at this stage at least, I cannot say that this example is a bona-fide orange dialled 62-6198. I have not yet been able to find another example of an orange dialled 62-6198, which is what we need to find to pin this one down! Ideally original catalogs or adverts are what we need to authenticate both the dial and hand designs. And here’s an image from Martin (‘Martback’) of his orange 52-0110 which dial-wise appears to identical to the one above (thanks Martin), with dial code of 8210-825095:
As to the bezel, it clearly looks to be blue in the image, and Paul believes that this was the original colour. Mikko on the other hand is sceptical, and suggests ‘blue’ may be the result of UV light:
I’m still highly doubtful about the existence of a blue bezel in any of the “basic” 1970s divers. I have seen many examples which at first glance appear to be blue, however my personal opinion is that blue colour is caused by UV fading. Here is one of the most extreme examples I have found ( http://www.watchmeandyou.com/2011/02/citizen-diver-52-0110.html ). In this case even the dial has turned blue.
So again, there is enough doubt for me about the blue bezel that I need to find an original image, say from a catalog or advert, before I can confimr it is an authentic colour.
On the subject of bezels, here are some very helpful macro images of lume pips, courtesy of Mikko:
Original bezel from 52-0110:
Original bezel from 62-6198:
Reproduction bezel based on 62-6198 specifications:
The lume pip of both original bezels is covered with a very thin layer of glass to avoid wearing of the lume material. There is always a black ring around the lume pip in original ones. Bogdan’s page shows more details how to identify a bezel’s authenticity:
http://vintagecitizenwatches.com/2014/07/26/citizen-150m-diver-bezel-original-vs-fake/
Mikko has also provided some invaluable further information about dials:
Dial variants of the black 52-0110
There are two black dial variants of 52-0110 that I know of. My examples are fully original including crystals. Crystals have some scratches which causes some issues with the quality of the photos
Dial code: 8210 820719-6
My quess (I need to collect more evidence) is that this is the first version of the 52-0110 as the dial details and how it is constructed are quite similar to older Citizen divers (see later). I think the dials have been built in the following way:
Lume pips and Citizen logo are part of the dial (welded or stamped) dial is painted Surface of the lume pip frames and and Citizen logo are polished to remove the paintlume is applied
Here are some photos of the watch and the details (I have one of these from 1977):
8210 820719-6: Date ring frame and lume pip frame are connected. Again, blending to the rest of the dial.
Dial code: 8210 824391 KA
This dial design appears to be similar to the orange dial version of the 52-0110. My theory is that Citizen changed the dial manufacturing technique at some point where lume pips and logo are separately applied after the dial has been been painted. I believe the dial construction is as follows:
Dial is painted lume pips are lumed and installed individually using rivets(??) Citizen logo and date frame are applied with rivets(??). Resulting look is crisper than in the other dial version as details look like they are “floating” on the dial surface. Down side is that quality of the black dial paint is not as good as in other versions and these dials seems to fade over time.
Some photos of the watch and the details (I have two of these from 1977 and 1978):
Dial code: 8210 824391 KA: Letters in the Citizen logo are connected and logo is separately applied. Lume pips are not a fixed part of the dial and have razor sharp edges:
Dial code: 8210 824391 KA: the date frame is not connected to the lume pip and the lume pip is only partly framed. Both of these have been applied separately:
Some additions to 62-6198 variants
This case back variant…..
….has “WATER RESISTANT” text in the dial:
Whereas this case back variant….
…..is missing the “WATER RESISTANT” text:
I have four (3 x 1974, 1 x 1975) 62-6198’s without the “WATER RESISTANT” text and two (2 x 1976) with the text and they all have same dial code: JAPAN 6000-602231-S
And finally two detailed photos of one of my 62-6198’s:
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Many thanks to Paul & Mikko for their contributions to this page – their comments and excellent photographs provide invaluable reference material.
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8200 (21 & 17 jewels): Model Number: 51-2273 / Case Number: 4-822145 Y / 21,600 bph / Date Complication / ‘Spade’ hands / Rectangular lume spot just over half way along second hand / Round intermediate hour markers / Small crown
(image by PeteW)
This model was also produced with a 17 jewel version of the 8200 movement. It can be identified externally by the lack of any jewel count on the dial as per the 17 jewel version of the 52-0110. Pictures here courtesy of ‘Michael’, a visitor to this blog who was able to confirm that this is a correct version:
Depth Rating: 200 meters
Possibly Citizen’s first diver, using the 1120 ‘Jet’ movement in 21 jewel form (first produced in 1962) this 200 meter rated model was known as the ‘Skin Diver’. This is a very rare piece. It appears to have been made with black or silver dials and an external bezel – pale gold on the silver dialled version. The dial is marked ‘AUTO DATER’, with a specially engraved back, with no serial number to help date it. ‘KK’ a reader of this blog, owns one of these and kindly offered use of his pictures. With enormous gratitude and full credit to KK, I have now included his images, along with a scan from the relevant ‘museum’ book of domestic Japanese watches and the only other image I have so far of the back, from a silver dialled model, which is missing its bezel. The case is 37.5mm wide, excluding crown, and the crown is push/pull, not screw down.
1120 (21 jewels): ‘Skin Diver’ Auto Dater
Above four images with thanks to ‘KK’ – see also this post: https://sweep-hand.org/2013/03/31/citizens-vintage-200m-diver-the-21-jewel-skin-diver/
(above image courtesy of ‘kuma-kun’)
Depth Rating: 500 meters
Citizen’s highest grade diver, and an exceptionally rare piece, is the Chrono Master 500 meter diver. Tuned to Chronometer standard, as indicated on the dial, this uses the 33 jewel 5420* movement and was first produced in 1971. With date only complication, and a unique minute hand the movement runs at 18,000 bph. The second hand is also unique to this model, with a square lume pip close to the end of the hand.
The special case back features the Chrono master eagle emblem – I’m not sure whether it is in in the form of a medallion (as would normally be the case with standard Chrono Masters) or engraved (which may be more suitable on a diver?).
5420* (33 jewels): Chrono Master Chronometer
* Note: my reference material for this movement gives the movement number as ‘5420’ – see image gallery. I am not sure that this is correct – it may be a mis-print, since the standard 33 jewel date only Chrono Master Chronometer is the 5240
Sweephand's Vintage Citizen Watch Blog 
Superb article – added to favourites. Thanks a lot!
Thanks 🙂 I hope I can improve it over time as people provide more info
Stephen
hello, can you please help me identify my watch?
vintage Citizen Promaster WR100 red dial and red bracelet
how do i post a photo?
Hi, thanks for visiting my blog. I’m afraid it’s not possible for visitors to post pictures directly here – if you can upload them to something like Photobucket than you can post a link, or I can e-mail you and you could send them to me for me to post. I’m not sure how much I can help since the Promaster watches are more recent than the vintage mechanical watches I know. Please let me know if you want me to e-mail you,
Stephen
What is email if we want to send a pic of the watch?
Hi Mandy – email sent, Stephen
Would you please guide me – I have a Citizen Super Crystal Date 33 Automatic with 3 stars. Has date. The back says Star S.S. Parawater AUD52803-Y GN Automatic on special marking. There are several numbers which I am not sure how to read. Do you think you can give me some background on this watch.
Appreciate your reply. Thank you
Hi Anabelle, thanks for visiting my blog 🙂 You have a very nice watch, not often seen, especially outside of Japan. Citizen made ‘super’ versions of some of their watches, for example the Super Deluxe and the Super Jet. The super models have higher jewelling and were subject to higher standards of adjustment before they left the factory. Super movements often had nicely finished movements – do you know if yours has? They were, of course, more expensive than the standard versions, almost twice as expensive for the Super Crystal Date in fact. You have the super version of the Crystal Date. The standard model was made with either 17 or 21 jewels versions of the 5410/5411 movement, which runs at 18,000 beats per hour. The super uses the same movement with 33 jewels:
These were first produced in 1966, and were only produced for a few years. The movement is part of the 52 Family which also powered the Crystal Seven line – the Crystal Date is the date only version of that range, and has a hard mineral glass which gives it the ‘crystal’ name. The super version usually (but not always) has the special case back:
52803 is the model / case number, GN is the case type (screw on, waterproof – i.e ‘parawater’) and AUD is the code for this range of automatics with date. The other number is the serial number, and the first three digits will give you the production date. So the one in the above image was made in December 1966 (61201665).
Hope this helps – please ask if you have any other queries.
Stephen
Hey Stephen, I have a question for you. I have a Citizen 8200 Diver. I am trying to see what year is it, and what do you know about it. 31 Jewels and me, we are trying to find as much as we can about these divers.
My case # 4-824199y and serial # is 810495.
thanks
Hi Vicente – the 8200 movement has been used since around 1975 so dating them can be more difficult. Yours has a six digit serial number so it’s likely to be from after 1980 or so I think. Without seeing it, do you think that 1988 sounds right?
Stephen
Hi I have this 4-180551TA 63-1230 21 jeweels parawater what is oyur year..? thanks
Hi, thanks for visiting my blog. From the information you give I think your watch is from the late 1960s or very early 1970s. ‘Parawater’ was changed to ‘water resistant’ from about 1970 so the latest it can be is around 1973. The case number (4-180551) and the model number (63-1230) indicate your watch uses the ‘Homer’ 1800 movement, with date window. Is there a a serial number on the case back? This would help give the exact year of production.
All the best,
Stephen
Hi I have citizen diver 4-622145y GN4-S 51-2273
Hi Allen, thanks for visiting my blog – good to hear that you have a 51-23273. Do you have any questions about your diver? Stephen
Hi…yes japan 6- 187838-y is this? another thanks
Hi, ‘6-187838-y’ looks like a dial code – is that printed at the bottom of the dial? It may be that your watch does not have a serial number. Some of these models did not have a serial number so we can only estimate the date of production, which is around 1970.
Stephen
yes is that printed at the bottom of the dial? getting behind 20300115 congratulacions by your page ,my english is basic sorry and thanks
Hi, no need to apologise about your English, it’s very much better than my Spanish! Thanks for giving the serial number from the back, that is what we need 🙂 This gives a production date of March, 1972 (from the fist three parts of the number (203). It can’t be 1962 since Citizen didn’t use this kind of model number then (63-1230)and it can’t be 1982 since they didn’t use ‘parawater’ by that time.
Stephen
Hi Stephen, lookslike you know much about Citizen clocks 🙂 So, I got the watch from Dad years ago and it has lied in box a while. It is similar than Joses watch but I have s/n 10900814. Could you tell me about it, please.
Thanks in advance!
Kari,
Finland
Hi Kari – thanks for visiting my blog. I’m sorry but I’m not sure which is Jose’s watch. Can you please give more info about your watch, thanks
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
I ment his comment I replied. But here comes info of my clock:
4-180551TA
63-1230
10900814
“Parawater”
BR, Kari
Hi Kari – thanks for the additional information. What you have is a hand winding watch from September 1971, using the 1800 ‘Homer’ movement – this is the version with a date window. This movement was introduced in 1962 and was in production right through to around 1975, reflecting its quality and reputation for reliability and decent accuracy. The style of the case number (4-180551) and model number (63-1230) are typical of the later models from the end of the 1960s / early 1970s. I don’t think these were made as late as 1981, but if they were it would not be marked ‘parawater’ since ‘water resistant’ was then in use. The Homer models (some were called this on the dial, others had different model names, whist some simply have ‘Citizen’ on the dials) usually came with 17 or 21 jewels, and run at the 18,000 beats per hour. This standard speed means they only need occasional servicing and often run well for many years without any attention at all. I think your model will be 21 jewels – is that correct?
Hope this helps, Stephen
Thanks Stephen,
It did really helps 🙂 Yes, you’re correct – it’s 21 jewels.
Kari
You’re welcome 🙂
ok, hahahaha the spanish is very easy…hahaha if you go to spain .you have here my home…..thanks for all…….good page ; ) and oyur help very good……
All the best
jose.
Pleased I could help, thank you for your comments,
Stephen
I’ve bought one that i didn’t find listed here…
17jewels Parawater (skindiver? serviced but in need of a new bezel inlay, if able to find one of those somewhere.
Some great pic’s and a lot of good information here, thank you.
Great review mate, I love your pics and Its a great addition for the future
Thank you for sharing,
Thanks JeJe, you’re welcome 🙂
Excellent as always! My favourite has to be 51-2273 as the case has a ‘sub’ feel to it.
Regards,
Jay.
Thanks Jay 🙂 The one negative I’ve seen about the 51-2273 is that it has a smaller crown.
Stephen
Où réparer et trouver une couronne vissée pour citizen 8210 modèle 52-0110 de 1977
Salut Eric,
J’ai peur des pièces de rechange sont difficiles à trouver, voire impossible, à moins que vous pouvez trouver une montre de donateurs. J’ai contacté quelqu’un que je connais a travaillé sur les plongeurs Citizen vintage donc vous permettra de savoir ce qu’il m’a dit
Cordialement,
Stephen
(Hi Eric,
I’m afraid replacement parts are hard to find, if not impossible unless you can find a donor watch. I’ve contacted someone who I know has worked on vintage Citizen divers so will let you know what he tells me,
Regards,
Stephen)
Great article. Those divers with the jet movement are so rare. I have not ever seen one for sale – except perhaps for the 39j superjet 150m – which quite rightly isn’t shown here as it does not have a rotating bezel.
Thanks Ross – I have only seen a very few of the ‘true’ divers with the Jet movement for sale, and only in Japan so far.
Stephen
Great to find your reviews.
I have a ‘near new’ B52806 model.
I bought it new in 1968, and hardly wore it (I considered it too good to wear). They really are a lovely, solid watch.
Now, at 65+ I doubt I will wear it! Poor thing has been in a drawer all these years.
So, I need advice please.
I want to sell it, but probably limited sales here in New Zealand.
Where do I sell it? Anywhere (world wide) that can be trusted if I send the watch to them?
What value would the watch have?
Maybe a reader of your review may want it?
It really is still fully original, only some very faint marks from when I did wear it.
Advice greatly appreciated.
Hi Kelvin, great to hear from someone who has had his vintage Citizen from new in 1968 🙂 I’ll send you an e-mail to respond to your questions,
Stephen
I have a 1968/9 purchased OR-O Diver B52806 which my father bought for me for £32 in the UK. I wore it for years then had other watches but am now back into it. The bezel is missing. Any clue where I might obtain one? I love the watch and it’s not bad without the bezel. Think I scratched it badly in Belgium rock climbing so decided to ditch it!
I dived in the watch in Scotland. Citizen refuse to service the watch due to the automatic movement. Any ideas on servicing also? Seems to run OK and is accurate to about 2 seconds a day. MAX
Hi Max, thanks for visiting my blog. Good to hear that you still have an original B52806 🙂 What a shame about the bezel – is it the whole bezel or just the insert? Finding the whole bezel will be very very difficult I’m afraid. I can recommend the ‘Watch Bloke’ (Duncan) for service in the UK. See the blogroll links on the right of the home page.
Stephen
hi, can you please contact me if you have this model:B52806.
If the watch has not been sold yet, then contact me because i am interested in it.
hi, do you still have the citizen model:B52806?
Yes Ray, I still have the B52806 watch. Are you interested?
Hi Sweephand:
I have one 8210.- Display is a little different from your photos.- My one have’s “Water resistant” and behind 150 M.- Back case numbers are:
4-820789 Y
80400276
GR -4-5
52-0110
Date number is in red.- Hand and marker brights as the first day.- It was not exposed to direct sun to much, i suppose that’s the rease why it shines till today.-
I’ve bought it on 1978, and still works fine, it’s a really good watch.- I’ll try to take some photos to send you soon.-
This one and my Ploprof are the best watches i have.-
Very good blog.
Hi Eduardo, thanks for your comments 🙂
It would be very helpful to see some photos of your watch if it is a bit different form the ones I have posted. Since you bought it new in 1978 we know it will be an original example.
Stephen
Dear Sweephand,
congratulations to your great site that shows real enthusiasm to these great watches!
I own the diver 63-5370 No.9090253 pictured above, sadly it came with a new aftermarket bezel inlay and not with the nicely worn original.
I am no friend of “as new” condition and like antique things wearing their signs of use proudly.
Therefore allow me to ask, if you still have the used hands of your 69 Seven Star Diver? They would harmonise perfectly to my 69 Diver(my minute hand looks like redone).
When I got the watch it looses about 80 seconds/day and the previous owner told me these movements (think I have the 5410) are not famous for their accuracy. I got it to my watchmaker who explained me that this is only a simple Japanese movement and not to compare with swiss movements of that time.
I told him this is my absolutly favourite watch and he should make it faster, if possible. 5 minutes later I got it back and until now it ran nearly chronometer like with only minus 5 seconds/day.
The running time without wear is about 46 hours.
In your opinion, how often should these watches be serviced by nearly daily wear?
Thanks a lot and Best Regards from Germany
Adam
Hi Adam,
thank you for your comments, much appreciated 🙂
I’m afraid I don’t have the old hands from the Seven Star diver – they went to New Zealand where someone was restoring a diver similar to yours.
As to the comments about the movements not being famous for their accuracy, in my opinion they are actually very good, assuming they are in good condition of course. They may not be ‘famous’ for accuracy – probably because vintage Citizens are not that well known at all in fact! – but I have found the 5xxx and 7xxx series movements, and others too for that matter, can be very accurate indeed. I’ve been wearing a Crystal Date, with the 5401 movement for the last few days and it’s keeping very accurate time.
Your watch running at -5 seconds per day is superb, but not surprising to me 🙂 And a power reserve of 46 hours is very impressive for a watch that is 40+ years old.
I’m not a watch mechanic, so I’m not sure about how often a watch should be serviced. I’ve seen some say that you only need to service it if it starts to misbehave, e.g. lose or gain too much time per day, or loses a lot of power reserve. It’s an interesting question though, so I will make some enquiries…
I’m going to send you an e-mail about something else….
your collection is amazing, i’m jealous, apparament tu parle français 🙂
est ce que tu compte vendre une partie de ta collection ou tout garder pour toi? 😀
thanks for your comment – but I’m afraid I don’t speak French, I have to use an on-line translator!
I’m using my own collection in the ‘Featured Watches’ series and I use my examples on the special pages, but I also use images from fellow collectors and the internet to give complete information.
Merci pour votre commentaire – mais je crains que je ne parle pas français, je dois utiliser un traducteur en ligne !
J’utilise ma propre collection de la série « Featured montres » et j’utilise mes exemples sur les pages spéciales, mais j’utilise aussi des images d’autres collectionneurs et internet pour donner des informations complètes.
Stephen
Thanks to those who contacted me about my watch ( model B52806).
My family have now asked me to keep it, so I have accepted their request.
If this should change, I have promised first option to a fellow forum member.
Thanks for your interest, I had no idea that the old Divers would be so popular.
Regards to all.
Hi , thanks for such an interesting site. Against your Model 8200 with the Spade Hands, you have “note incorrect second hand ” The second hand shown is identical to the one on my watch, which is totally original. I purchased it new in 1993 in Borneo ,when I started diving , so I guess it was old stock then!!
I still use it for diving !,and it has always been very accurate ( within a minute per week )despite spending months unused in the bottomof my dive bag. If you forward your e mail details, I will send you photos of it, c/w its original rubber strap.
Hi David, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your comments. And thanks as well for pointing out that I had left that comment on the page when in fact the image I’d got (replacing my original one) was of a correct example. Now amended and updated 🙂
Email sent,
Stephen
Great information here! Thank you.
I have a Citizen diver that I purchased new in 1978 in Yokosuka, Japan. It keeps excellent time, and the only thing I have changed over the years is the band. i have no idea what it is worth. It would be nice to know, but I’ll never part with it.
I just took some pics of it and I would love to send them to you. One from the front and one from the back. I didn’t open the case. How would I go about getting pics to you?
Hi Jim – great to hear you still have your vintage Citizen 🙂 I’m about to dash out so will reply again, probably tomorrow. In the meantime let me know whether it’s ok for me to e-mail you – that way you can send the pics to me and I can upload them here,
Stephen
Oops, replied on blog…. Anyway, feel free to email me.
Just be.
e-mail sent 🙂
Stephen
You absolutely email me! Thanks for the quick response. Look forward to hearing from you.
Hi,
You have very nice and informative blog! Thanks!
I got last week a Citizen Parawater 150m (68-5372). Serial number is 21110624, I understood that this means that watch is from 1972.
Watch has been unused at least 20 years but it is in a quite bad shape. Dial is good but crystal and bezel is covered with scratches and a whole bezel is very loose. There are also some difficulties to set the date. I have quickly tested that watch runs but I don’t know how it keeps time. Now I am thinking to service or repair the watch. I understood from your blog that it is very hard to find replacement parts (crystal, bezel…) but I want to try my luck and ask if you have any ideas where I could get good replacement parts.
Any details would be greatly appreciated. I can send pictures if it helps.
Sorry for my bad writing 🙂
Hi Hannu, thanks for your kind comments 🙂 And sorry for slow reply, I’ve has a busy week with little time on the pc! I agree that your diver is from November 1972, and is one of the rarer of the 150m models, so congratulations on your purchase. There have been some replacement crystals and bezel inserts from a particular seller on eBay, which I think would fit your model, but he has none for sale at the moment. I don’t know whether there will be more, but I will contact him and let you know.
I would think a good watch maker could service your watch, but if parts are needed then they are likely to be very hard to find. I usually advise that a donor watch / movement is the likeliest source. If you know a good watch guy maybe he could take a look and advise whether or not parts are needed. If so I can try a contact or two to see if there is anything available.
Your English is fine by the way 🙂
Stephen
Thank you!
I try to send next week my watch to one watch maker. I let you know what he says.
It looks like crystals may become available again in about 6 weeks or so. I’m still checking on the bezel insert, so will let you know.
Stephen
It’s a great article. Thank you very much for the valuable information that I got form it.
I have a CITIZEN 7 STAR DELUXE PARAWATER 100m. It looks like the one which is shown on the 2 pictures above, under the title “5270 (21 jewels): Compressor – Case Number: 4-520017 Y, Marked ‘Deluxe’ with separate date and day windows, Crowns at 2 and 4 o’clock”
On its case back, among other engravings, it has this : GN-3-S
Is this watch a “true diver”? I mean can I swim and having it on my wrist?
It doesn’t look to me, as its crowns don’t screw down.
I also want to ask you whether it’s possible to find a replacement innner bezel and the crown that rotates the bezel.
Thank you very much again
Panpap
Hi Panpap, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your kind comments 🙂 As far as I know a watch rated to 100m is ok for swimming, but I would not advise trying it with a vintage watch unless it has been very properly serviced with new gaskets and pressure tested. Even then I would not dare to try it! The ‘compressor’ style divers don’t use screw down crowns, but they are just as effective since water pressure makes the seal even more effective. The important thing about crowns on divers is that they have an effective sealing / gasket design – for example the first Seiko diver (the ’62MAS’), rated to 150m didn’t have a screw down crown.
I think the only way to find a replacement inner bezel and crown / gear is to find a donor watch. Parts for these aren’t available these days.
Hope this helps,
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
I came acroos an interesting looking Parawater with a crown shaped logo with a 7 in it.Was this ever a citizen logo used on the parawater models?The case back says Parawater, but at the 9 o’ clock position on the dial, there’s an other number, “111”. What does this signify?
Also do you think the cursive font on a parawater is normal?
Please view the link attached for your reference.
Regards,
Pratik
http://www.ebay.in/itm/VINTAGE-RARE-CITIZEN-7-AUTOMATIC-MEN-STEEL-CALIBER-8200-JAPAN-RARE-WATCH-RUNNING-/251329125930?pt=IN_Watches&hash=item3a84621e2a&_uhb=1#ht_1230wt_1186
Hi Pratik, the watch in the link looks like a cobbled together ‘franken’ to me I’m afraid. The seller says it’s an 8200 movement, yet the back is from a 72xx series. No 8200 will be legitimately found in a ‘parawater’ watch either – the 8200 was first produced in 1975 so ‘water resistant’ was in use by then. The hand set looks to be after market (or from a later 8200 model maybe). The dial may be from a ‘Superking’ (the cursive font for that seems ok from what I can see) but I’ve never seen ‘111’ before, nor the 7 logo at 12 o’clock, so those features could be from a re-diallers imagination!
‘Parawater’ and the 7 logo appeared on some of the second generation Jet rotor models:
and the Seven, a hand winding version of those automatics:
Stephen
I have an old Citizen watch that may have belonged to my grandfather. The model (I’m told by Citizen) is AC6102-52A with the following stamped on the back:6031-S07734 SMW . 8082469 GN-4-S→5 Help! Lynn
Hi Lynn, thanks for visiting my blog 🙂
The watch you have is a quartz model, so it’s not one I’m familiar with I’m afraid. I’ve had a quick look around and I found an example on eBay – it has a very ‘retro’ style, taking its look from much older watches. The information from the case back tells us that it uses a 6031 quartz movement – this technical document I found says that the 6031 movement was in fact used in ladies’ watches: http://www.awci.com/wp-content/uploads/watch-tech-guides/CITIZEN-TECH-GUIDES/6031-Technical-Information.pdf
Unfortunately the technical guide isn’t dated, but from the style and use of quartz, I would guess that yours is most likely from August 1988 (from the first 3 digits in the serial number (strong>8082469). It is possible that it’s from 1998, so I can’t be sure since I don’t have any reference material for the very many quartz models Citizen has made over the years.
Hope this helps a bit!
Stephen
Here’s a pic if it’ll help. Looks a little big for a lady but it could have been Mom’s
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone
Hi Lynn – I’m afraid you aren’t able to post photos directly. But I did have a look at an example of the model. The reference to the 6031 movement being in ladies’ watches was in the technical guide so I presume that is correct.
Stephen
Hi
I just bought a Citizen New Master 33 Parawater.
Can you please help me to date it and perhaps tell if of its rarity. It is also slow 5 mins every hours (any way to rectify this?)
I cannot post photos here but you can see my watch at: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/citizen-newmaster-parawater-21-jewels-63-1396-please-help-date-watch-917335.html#post6785341
Thanks for your help.
Alan
Hi Alan, thanks for visiting my blog. You’ll probably kick yourself when I tell you the production date of your watch 🙂 What you might think is a serial number on the back – 197104 – is actually the date it was made: April 1971. There are a few models where Citizen used this system, so you can find examples with the same number on because they were made in the same month and year.
Generally speaking the later Newmaster models from around the early 1970s are fairly common, but yours is more unusual since it has a date window. So yours has the ‘Homer’ 18xx movement in it – typically this age of Newmaster would have the 02xx movement with a plain dial.
Since it’s running very slow it sounds to me like it needs a strip down, clean and service, but bear in mind that spares would only be available from a donor watch. You could ask a watch repairer to try de-magnetizing it, that could be the problem, or to see if its hairspring is caught up. They could resolve the running issue without the expense of a service.
Stephen
Thanks Stephen. I have only started to collect watches. I am glad I found your blog. It is indeed useful. I will be very grateful if you can also comment on another watch which I bought a little earlier ( a week ago). I have posted the photos here http://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/citizen-newmaster-please-help-age-watch-915228.html#post6767201 Can you tell me when this was made and if it is a rare watch. This one is very precise (perfect time always). Thank you for your time.
You’re welcome 🙂 You have a variant of the one you asked about before, using the same movement. However this one is an export version, i.e. made for the western market. This is indicated by the use of ‘waterproof’ rather than ‘parawater’, as well as ‘shockproof’ and ‘anti-magnetic’ which are not found on models for the Japanese domestic market. The use of ‘waterproof’ (and ‘parawater’) was phased out in the early 1970s, when manufacturers had to use ‘water resistant’ instead. The latest date I’ve seen on a ‘parawater/waterproof’ model is 1973. Your watch doesn’t seem to have a serial number – can you make out the full number on the back? It looks like it may be a model number to me. It’s possible that there is a serial number on the inside of the case back, but I think it’s unlikely. A few of the basic models from the early 1970s do not have serial numbers unfortunately which would allow us to pin the production date down.
Good to hear the watch is running well and accurately – the Homer movement is a very sound and reliable one and was used by Citizen for around 15 years. And the HMT company in India still uses the same design in their watches!
Stephen
Many thanks again Stephen. The seller at the flea market told me that all these watches came from an old shop which closed down some twenty years ago. He still does have some more Citizens apart from others but they are no longer in working condition. Do you think if it is worth it is worth buying them if he wants GBP 5 each? I have seen a few Citizen automatics (square shape and a round one too) but sadly none are working and I dare not take the risk.
Hi Alan – I think it depends what the models are. If they were interesting / rarer models they could be useful for parts. If they are the later 8200 models then I would think not since working examples of them can easily be found.
Stephen
Dear Stephen
Many thanks again. I think I better go to his house later today and get photos to show you. Have a great evening.
Hi Stephen
Can you please have a look at this one and let me know if it is rare and worth keeping even for parts? Thanks
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/citizen-automatic-waterproof-21-jewels-please-help-date-watch-917875.html#post6789687
Hi Stephen
Can you please have a look at this second citizen watch and let me know if it is rare and worth keeping even for parts? Thanks
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/citizen-automatic-water-resistant-please-help-me-date-watch-917877.html#post6789692
Hi Stephen
Can you please have a look at this third citizen watch and let me know if it is rare and worth keeping even for parts? Thanks for your time. I really appreciate it. Alan
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/citizen-automatic-waterproof-21-jewels-please-help-tell-me-more-about-watch-917879.html#post6789696
Hi Alan – I’ve had a look at the three watches. My observations are:
#1: From June 1970, this is an export model (marked waterproof / no model name). If the bracelet is complete and signed ‘Citizen’ then it may be worth having, just for the bracelet
#2: 6501 automatic from August 1974 – missing hour markers on the dial etc, I would suggest not worth getting
#3: Custom V2 from October 1972 – might be worth getting if the band is complete and in good condition, if signed Citizen it may be original.
I’d try and get them for less than £5 each though – maybe £5 for the two, since you don’t know whether or not the movements have salvageable parts. To me the bracelets are the most interesting bits. The movements in these are not rare so if you ever needed parts in the future they should be relatively easy to find via a donor watch at the time.
Stephen
Hi Stephen
I have an old Citizen watch in new condition and I like to know more about please.
Thanks
Sharron
Hi Sharron, thanks for visiting my blog 🙂 You have a very nice watch – it’s in super condition, and great to have the Citizen tag with it. Although this kind of colourful dial and the faceted crystal, very evocative of the 1970s, are not to everyone’s taste, it is a very nice example. The movement in yours is the 6000 (as stamped on the back) – the movement number will be stamped on the movement near the balance wheel and will be 6000 or 6001. This is the date only version of the 65 movement family. The day and date movements are numbered 6500 and 6501. It’s unusual to see a date only version in this style of dress watch in my experience – the same 6000 is used in the sought after 150m diver. The 6000/1 came with either 17 or 21 jewels and runs at 21,600 beats per hour.
The other information on the case back is as follows:
4-600975 – is the case number
62-6775 – is the model number
40902028 – is the serial number, from which we can date the watch. The 6500 & 6000 movements were first made in 1971 and had a fairly short production run as Citizen developed quartz technology and vastly reduced their range of mechanical watches. So yours was made in September 1974 (40902028).
Stephen
Thank you for your help 🙂
You’re very welcome 🙂
hello excuse my English, I’m using a translator,
I have a watch of my grandfather. I could give information about the watch. is CITIZEN wáter resist. base metal top. stainless steel back.
4-211898 Y
44-9326
gn-7w-s
japan
gp
THANK YOU VERY MUCH
Hi Marc – thanks for visiting my blog 🙂 I don’t know that model I’m afraid. Could you please tell me a bit more about it, especially what is printed on the dial?
Stephen
Dear Sweephand,
My father has a Citizen 6000 series.
The 600851 model.
However the condition of the watch isn’t very good.
For example the bezel is missing.
Is it hard to find parts for this watch?
I will try to upload some pictures.
Kind regards,
RBK
Hi RBK, thanks for visiting my blog 🙂
I’m afraid you can’t post pictures directly – if you can upload them to somewhere like Photobucket you can post a link. Or I can email you and you can send them to me to post. Let me know if you want me to do that.
Parts are very hard to source, usually finding a ‘donor’ watch is the way to obtain them. Your father’s watch should be a 150m diver if the back is marked 4-600851 – that’s the case number in fact, and 62-6198 is the model number. Is that correct? And is the whole bezel missing or the insert? It will certainly be hard to find the whole bezel, but there have been some inserts and crystals available recently – new, but made to the original specs. There may be more of them at some point.
Stephen
Dear Stephen,
You can send me an email, then I will send you the pictures of the watch back.
The watch is indeed a 150m diver. The numbers are also correct.
I found this link of yours: https://sweep-hand.org/2012/09/20/before-after-bezel-insert-change/ with which I believe is the same watch (but then with bezel).
One more thing; the glass of the watch isn’t original I believe.
But perhaps with the pictures it will become more clear.
Kind regards,
RBK
Hi RBK – email sent 🙂
Stephen
Here is RBK’s diver – sadly this one has lost its bezel, the hunt for a replacement is on, but it’s going to be tough challenge!:
The overall condition looks to be very decent, so it will be good to see this one back to its complete original state:
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
I have a Citizen 8946-087879 Y
8021599. GN-4-S.
Could you be so kind to tell me what year it was made and any info about it?
Thanks a lot.
Alain
Hi Alain, your model is a quartz Promaster Wingman I believe. These are not within my collecting parameters, but after a bit of research I understand the 8946 movement was first produced in the 1980s. The 8943 was the first version, and that was launched in November 1981 in a model known as the Digiana Jet Boy! The first two digits of the serial number on yours – 8021599 – indicate that yours was made in February 1988.
I’ve uploaded a technical manual for your movement, access it here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.netherwood/2693_Citizen%208940%20etc.pdf – please feel free to download it if you wish since I might need to delete it later if I need the space!
Stephen
Thanks a lot Stephen, Your comment and info has been very instructive for me. Thanks for your time and support!
Just another question, I am thinking very seriusly to buy a new Citizen Watch, Can you advise me what will be a good choice for quality-price?
Thanks again.
Best regards,
Alain.
You’re welcome Alain 🙂 I’m afraid I don’t know the new models, but I would think that an eco-drive model in what ever is your price range would be a very good choice. I use the cheapest model when I’m working outside, when I don’t want to put a vintage model at risk, and it’s just fine.
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
first of all: THANKS for your GREAT website!
For years, this has been both, a great inspiration and helpful/educative resource for me!
I do collect CTZ, too (not at your scale & expertise though, not by far ;-)). Although I own many windup CTZ’s, my main focus is the battery driven ones. Like of course the Cosmotrons – but also the later early quartz watches (both analog and digital). As long as it is prior to 1980 (with exeption of some few and destinct later models which I find interesting, like i.e. the Voice Recorder).
You may already guess where this is heading…: CTZ Crystron models.
The CTZ expert you are, you will obviously be familiar with these – and must have deliberately decided to not expand into that field of quartz watches yourself (or at least: not yet?). Which is fine and I’m not going to try to talk you into Crystrons ;-).
However, since your great sum-up of vintage CTZ divers covers “1962-1980”, you might want to at least mention that there also was the first CTZ QUARTZ divers available in that time-range. In fact, I think that one of the Crystron divers models, though probably “not within your collecting parameters” would actually deserve more than a mention. Since in the 1970s, it was one of the most expensive CTZ watches – and from looking at your extensive list of CTZ divers, it was also the one with the highest depth-rating back then: 600M!
This would of course be the CTZ “Crystron 600M” model 60-0997 (4-860756 Y, GN-3) of 1977. Movement is Quartz 8620. The watch is a true divers: screwdown crown, uni-directional bezel/divers ring with 60 clicks. All steel mono-case – with an almost 4mm thick mineral crystal.
As far as I know, this watch was only produced 1977 and in rather small numbers (serialnumbers are 7-digit only). The very same case was used 1978 again, with the later 7100/7300 quartz movement (4-730674 Y / 44-0035).
If you want pictures let me know and I will take some.
There also was a handful other “Crystron” divers rated 100M and 150M (ranging 1978-1981 from my database), but these are probably less of a milestone as the 600M is.
BTW: I guess from a “practical” point of view, the quartz divers must have been a bit of a failure… The battery only lasts about a year – and in order to replace it, you need to take apart most of the watch to access it. The need to replace the cell every year AND making sure it will still withstand 600M afterwards is a hassle you don’t have with any automatic divers… 😉
The 100M and 150M models feature standard screwdown backs and the cells lasts a bit longer on the 7100/7300 quartz movements, so it is a bit easier on them.
Well, though “Crystrons” seem not to be within your own collecting pattern, I thought you might still find this interesting.
Thanks again for all your educative work and enlightenments!
Best regards and greetings from Germany,
Jajo
Hi Jajo, thanks for visiting my blog and I’m very pleased to hear that you have found it useful 🙂 Thanks also for a very interesting comment about Citizen’s early quartz watches, and particularly the Crystron 600m diver. You’re right that I have limited my collection to mechanical, electro-mechanical and tuning fork watches prior to 1980 but of course the quartz models reached the market within that time frame. I’ve not researched those models though so I don’t much reference material to work from. For the diver page to be complete I should include any models that were produced before 1980 especially given the specifications of the 600m Crystron. Would you be happy to share the info on your database, and photos too, so that I can add the relevant quartz models? That would be very helpful indeed, and of course I’d give you full credit. Thanks again for taking time to comment – please let me know if you’d like me to email you direct, which would be easier for exchanging info / photos,
Stephen
Hello,
Fantastic and informative site. The images (#22 and 23) of the orange dial 100m Parawater were taken by me when I owned the watch. Please feel free to continue to use them.
Best,
Steve Oliverio
Hi Steve, first of all, thanks for visiting my blog and your kind comments 🙂 And thank you as well for giving permission for the continued use of your photos. At the time of writing I wasn’t aware who had done them. I have now added a note to credit them to you.
Stephen
Hi Sweephand,
I like the blog. I’m not a collector but I have an automatic citizen that belonged to my grandfather that I’d like to keep running, if feasible. I’m assuming from information above that it was made in Jan 1972 with its serial no. of 20100524. The other information is 4-740025 Y and 68-5194. It had been running erratically (losing 5 mins a day) up until relatively recently but now stops for quite a while.
Can you advise me how to proceed and the approximate costs involved, obviously it is more sentimental value than monetary value. How can I tell which watches it shares a movement with?
Thanks very much,
Sean
Hi Sean, thanks for visiting my blog – you’re right that your watch was made in 1972; the case number (4-740025) tells us that it has a 74xx movement in it, which was made with a number of different jewel counts from 21 to 31. Most of these were ‘high-beat’ running at 28,800 or 36,000 beats per hour. From the model number (68-5194) we see that yours is the 21 jewel version which runs at 21,600 beats per hour. The 74xx is the date only version of the 77 movement family, whilst 72xx models, which are much more often seen, were date and day versions. The 21 jewel movement number is 7470, which should be stamped on the movement close to the balance wheel if you were to remove the case back. The 72 versions with 21 jewels (7270) will share movement parts if they are needed – the models to search for with that movement are from the ‘Seven Star V2’ range. However, providing the functions in yours (e.g. date change, hand and auto-winding) are working correctly, it may be that it just needs a thorough clean and service, especially if it has not been serviced for a long time. Old oil can gum it up and stop it running properly.
Although these are relatively straightforward automatic watches that a good watch maker should be able to service, you would want someone who is used to working on good quality mechanical pieces to do the work. Where are you located?
Finally here’s a pic of ‘your’ watch (I have seen a white or silver dialled one too), from a 1974 German catalog (pic by ‘Axel66’ on the SCWF):
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
thank you very much for going above and beyond with your reply. I’m located in Dublin. I had tried to drop it into an old watchmaker whom seemed to be the sort to be able to fix it (rather than the sort who are only able to change batteries or return to the manufacturers) but it is difficult to know how competent someone else is when you are not an expert yourself. I know there is an official citizen service centre in Shannon, Co. Clare so I might ring them during next week but I assume they will be more comfortable with more recent models.
I hope the watch only does need a service- the face certainly needs to be cleaned up. I checked the watch over the weekend against a compass and it seems very magnetic which could have (unintentional pun) some bearing on the matter.
My watch is the silver face model similar to this (http://uhrforum.de/citizen-automatik-1974-68-5194-a-t54223) model but without the red second hand and on a metal bracelet.
Thank you kindly for your reply, I actually think unlike some watches of the era its design stands up very well today and I really like the sweep of the second hand (although I really like the look of that rally style strap).
Take care,
Sean
Hi Sean, you’re welcome 🙂 It’s certainly worth running the watch through a de-magnetiser (your local guy should be able to do that) to see if it makes a difference. I doubt Citizen will be able to help, they won’t have parts and probably don’t work on older models. I’ve had someone recommended to me who is in the UK if you are happy to mail the watch, but it’s worth checking whether it’s magnetised first,
Stephen
Thanks Stephen,
it is definitely magnetised but I think the watch may have been over wound by hand so I might contact the person you recommend for a quote. The face could use a clean in any case and I’d rather someone competent did it. Good news on the parts front though.
Sean
Hi Sean – I’ll email you with the details 🙂
Stephen
hi stephen,
can you help to identify this watch ,this is my grandfather 21JEWELS,information back as below,
4-062981SMT
90696079
71-1845
JAPAN
G.P.
BASE METAL TOP
thanks
Tony 2014-02-20
Hi Tony, thank you for visiting my blog. Although I haven’t got a reference to the model you have (71-1845) or case number (4-062981) I believe it is an automatic with the 8200 movement inside. Other model numbers that start with ’71’ use this movement, and some are listed in the 1977 case parts guide. It’s possibly from June 1979 (from first three digits of the serial number 90696079). Does this production date fit with when your grandfather acquired it? Does the watch have an eagle logo on the dial? If it does it would be later than that, maybe 1989 – the 8200 movement has been used in many models for over 30 years so it can be difficult to pin a production date down. GP is for gold plated of course over a ‘base metal’ case, probably a nickel alloy I think.
The 8200 is a sound and reliable movement, used for many years by Citizen – how is yours running? Here’s some more info:
Stephen
hi Stephen,
thanks for you so detail respond ,this watch still running smooth and on time, if you interest i can send photo to your email, pls give me your information
nice to talk with you
thanks
Tony
Hi Tony – always like to see pics 🙂 Email sent – I’ve edited out your email address since this is a public blog.
Stephen
Stephen I have a few more of the 150M nos mineral crystal, some of your bloggers may have interest. Ebay ID seikomania
thanks Alex, good of you to post a comment here
Stephen
Hi Stephen. First of all I have to thank you for very informative webpages. They have been very helpful! I have nice Citizen diver model 67-5776 which is not running at the moment. Presently, the watch is in my watch maker and we don’t know what parts we need yet. However, if new parts are needed I have been looking for spares or donor piece to make it running again. Based on you review this model should have 7470 movement (“7470 (21 jewels): Model Number: 67-5776 / Case Number: 4-720521 4-721641 Y & Y”). However, according the case number (4-7220521y) it has 72XX series movement? Case numbers in your example photos also start with 4-72. So, is there error regarding the movement number of this watch in your page? My understanding is that parts between 7270 and 7470 are interchangeable except 7270 has a day disc? Watch has also cracked crystal (I assume its not original) and I have no idea where to find new one. I believe several types of acrylic crystals would fit, but I would like to find as original looking as possible. Any ideas about the shape and style of the original crystal and where to obtain one? High resolution photo of the crystal would be great help.
I also would like to have your opinion about the reluming of the hands and hour markers. Dial is in great shape and lume is intact, but it has some ageing…especially hands are pretty bad. As a watch collector would recommend reluming or not and how these options would affect on value of the watch? My present plans is to relume only the hands of the watch and leave the dial as it is. I really appreciate your help!
Cheers,
-MIKKO-
Hi Mikko, thanks for visiting 🙂 Firstly thanks for pointing out the typo! The movement is of course the 7270 – I’d got that right in the text but not in the sub-heading so I’ve now corrected it. As you say, 7470 would have denoted a date only model. I don’t have one of these so I can’t provide any photos of the crystal I’m afraid. I presume the case of the 7270 versions are the same as the 5270 versions – if so the part number for the plastic crystal is 54-0369, which measures 32.62mm across. I’ve checked Yahoo Japan, where original crystals can sometimes be found, but there’s nothing listed at the moment. I can only go on what I’ve seen on other examples – Google images seem to show these with a raised crystal, e.g. http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss177/WVE_2009/PB078347.jpg
To re-lume or not is not always agreed – my own view is that if it is in poor condition then it is better to have it re-done. I’d probably leave it if it is not too bad, or just do the hands if they are in worse condition. It has to be done very well though, and by someone who has the right skills – I would think it would add value compared to a watch which looks ‘tatty’ due to the state of the lume. In the end it’s your choice of course, but lume in poor condition is not good to look at! Also I would say that lume can look a lot worse when photographed close-up, so I would judge it from how it looks on the wrist, which is how we look at watches in real life after all 🙂
Stephen
Stephen, thanks for your quick response. Crystal part number and dimensions are great help! Hope we can source it from somewhere. Your view about re-luming is pretty in line with mine, so I will re-lume the hands first and see how it looks like. Problem with the dial is the shape of the lume dots. They are square shape and slightly raised with sharp corners. Therefore, re-luming of the dots would be extremely challenging and I assume they would never look the same. Thanks for your help!
-MIKKO-
You’re welcome Mikko. Good luck with the re-luming of the hands 🙂 I’ll keep a look out for the crystal, but it could be a looooooong time before one turns up, if at all! I’ve been able to check that the part number for the 72 movement is the same as the 52 one.
Stephen
Hello, I need help about a vintage Citizen diver 62-6198 ( 4-600851Y) model.
I’m from Spain, and my english is not good, but I will try that you can understand me.
I need a crown for this watch. I have two options, search for an original crown (very difficult) or search a similar crown.
I have 3 questions about it:
1. Can you sell me the original crown?
2. Can you tell me the technical specifications of this crown for search one similar?
3. Can you sell me any similar crown that I will can use in this watch?
I hope that you can help me, and please, if you can’t do it, answer me anyway or tell me where I can ask.
Thanks!!!
Hi Jacobo – thanks for visiting my blog. I’ve been away from my pc today and it’s late now, so I will get back to you tomorrow with some information. And your English is fine – much better than my Spanish! 🙂
Stephen
Hi Jacobo – the part number for the original crown is 506-5061. If you were to look for a donor watch as a source for the crown, there are several other models that use the same one. These are:
1. 62-5372
2. 52-0110
3. 4-722710 (a very scarce model)
There are three quartz divers that use this crown too, case numbers are: 4-730453, 4-732308, 4-732316.
Unfortunately a donor watch for any of these isn’t going to be very easy to find, and the prices of even junk examples are rising.
I don’t have a spare crown to sell I’m afraid, and I don’t know whether there are other crowns you could use. I’ll see if I can get any more information for you from someone I know who has worked on these divers, and get back to you as son as I can.
Stephen
Thanks Stephen!!! I have other question, my bezel move free (and in both directions).
Has the original bezel “clicks”? or is it continuos?
Is it unidirectional o bidirectional?
Thanks.
Hi Jacobo – the bezel on mine moves smoothly (no clicks) in both directions, like yours. As far as I know that is correct.
Stephen
Hello, Stephen I have found the crown with your help!!! Thank you very much. I want to ask you any thing, have you the number of the all components? (I need buy other thing for the minimum order) bezel,hands, stem… anything to see if the shop has it.
gaskets, crystal…
Hi Jacobo – great to hear you found a crown 🙂 Where did you find it?
I don’t think the bezel has a part number, it would be referenced as the 4-600851 case. There are new bezel inserts to original spec on eBay, item number: 351072706754
Here are some part numbers:
Crystal – 54-50050 (eBay item # for a replacement: 351073908067)
Stem: 065-1070
Back gasket: 393-0045
If the hour and minute hands are the same as the 52-0110 (this would need to be checked) the part number is: A58-65762.
Stephen
Thanks Stephen!!! But unfortunately in the online shop doesn’t have any of that parts, anyway to complete the minimum order I will buy two crowns.
The online shop is: https://stsupplyonline.com/catalog/login.php
I don’t know if they sell the original part or replacement but I don’t find other site to buy it.
that’s interesting Jacobo – I had seen that supplier before but had not followed it up. The crown on my 62-6198 has lost some of its plating, so when you get the two crowns if you want to sell one to help with the costs, please let me know 🙂
Stephen
Hello Stephen, Where are you from?
If you are in EEUU maybe is better that you buy 2 and send me one. The more economic shipping cost to Spain are 17$. I have sended an email to ask for a low price, I think is high for only one or two crowns.
Tell me that you think about buy you it or otherwise.
I wait you answer to buy it or wait that you do.
I’m in the UK Jacobo. I don’t know whether it would be better sending to me or not, I would think it would be the same to anywhere in Europe. What is the price for two crowns?
Stephen
about 36-37$ economic shipping included
that doesn’t seem too bad, especially with shipping included.
Stephen
Stephen I find a shop in germany and the have 4 original crowns.
the crown price is 8,25€ + 12€ shipping cost to Spain.
Do you want the web or buy I 2 and before send you one?
I wait your answer to buy one or two.
Hi Jacobo – I’ll email you if that’s ok, easier than communicating through the blog 🙂
Stephen
Hi Stephen and Jacobo,
I would be interested to buy one crown also. Any change to add me to the private email thread? I’m in EU if that helps?
Mikko
Hi Mikko – email just sent 🙂
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
I didn’t get your email. Think I might have misspelled my adress. Could you try resend ones more, address should be correct now.
Cheers,
Mikko
Hi Mikko, there was an error in the email address before, so I have just sent it again,
Stephen
I need help. I have an early Citizen’s OR-O Diver B52806 Watch that runs well but needs servicing and a crown Where can I get my watch repaired? Thanks. jhaworthjr
Thanks for visiting my blog – where in the world are you from? The biggest issue with vintage Citizens is the lack of spares – if your watch is running ok, it may be that a service is all that is required. Finding a crown is not going to be easy! Is it missing altogether? The original part number for yours is 506-502. The B52806 is rare so a ‘donor’ watch, often the best way of sourcing spare parts, is unlikely to be found. I’ll try and find out whether there is any alternative for the crown.
Stephen
Hi Stephen from sweep-hand,
I do have a 4-730453 model (150 m water resist). Could you help me with stating the value of this particular model? This I would very appreciate as I am struggling to do so myself! Thank you in advance, nice blog you established here.
Thanks for visiting my blog – from the case number you have a Crystron (quartz) 150m diver from the late 1970s / early 1980s. I avoid trying to give valuations since so many things can affect value. In general terms, if it’s in good / excellent condition then it will be of some interest, so is likely to sell, but it won’t make the same kind of money that a mechanical diver would. I can only suggest searching eBay to get some idea of value.
Stephen
Very informative blog, Stephen. I have owned a Rolex perpetual datejust (circa 1960) and have owned a citizen diver (circa 1987). I am thinking of selling my Rolex and buying a vintage citizen diver, as these are generally more durable and less costly to maintain. I have been looking to buy a Super Jet Diver (circa 1968), but am finding these are rare and rarely come up for sale. I will probably have to expand my search to vintage Citizen divers more generally. I do like the automatic, self-winding feature of these watches. Do you have any advice on what red flags to look for in a vintage citizen diver when buying on ebay? And, before what date are citizen divers considered “vintage”?
Chris
Hi Chris, thanks for visiting my blog. Sorry for not replying yet, should be able to do it tomorrow night
Stephen
hi Chris, apologies again for the delay in replying – weather here is so good I’ve been outside all the time! You’re right that the Super Jet Diver is a rare bird. I’ve seen a few very good examples for sale on Yahoo Japan, where they fetch high prices. I would certainly recommend Yahoo Japan as the place to look for this model. At the other end of the scale, the 52-0110 model with the 8200 date only movement is the least expensive to buy, and is easier to maintain since ‘donor’ movements are easy to find. Donor movements for the 62-6198 are also reasonably easy to find. Having said that, none of Citizen’s vintage divers, especially in good condition, are particularly easy to find. Cases and case parts are always hard to come by, so an original case and bezel in good condition is essential. Recently there has been a small supply of new bezel inserts and crystals for the 1970s models, made to the original specs.
As to what’s vintage, my definition is up to and including the 1970s, i.e before the quartz revolution took hold and the watch market changed forever.
From a collector’s point of view, the older and rarer models are of greater interest, but that brings the problem of lack of spares should parts ever be needed. As to what to look out for on eBay, I think the best examples are likely to be one-off sales from long term owners rather than the regular sellers. If you do see one for sale from a regular seller I would certainly recommend checking out opinions on the seller, for example on the Seiko and Citizen Watch Forum. I hope my page on the divers will help check out any that you see for sale, and by all means come back and ask questions if you want to check it out.
Stephen
Stephen can you please help me out to find what is the model and year of this particular watch which i bought on ebay,since nothing is written i am clueless.
Hi Noufal, thanks for visiting my blog. I was away from home for a few days so couldn’t reply sooner. Your watch is an ‘Eagle 7’, using Citizen’s 8200 automatic movement. These were introduced in the 1980s, so yours was made in either June 1985 or June 1995. Unfortunately I can’t say which for sure since these were made for quite a long time, but from its condition I would have thought 1985 is likely.
Stephen
thanks Stephen,Help greatly appeciated.
@stephen
almost every watch i saw in this series has either “Automatic” or “21 jewels” written inside the dial area ,My watch has nothing.It makes me doubtful if it is a real one.
Hi Noufal, yes you are right, the dial should be marked ’21 Jewels’ and ‘automatic’. It may be a real one, but I guess the dial has been re-painted. The movement looks correct.
Stephen
I have just missed a B52806 on auction in Sweden. I have searched ebay for similar early 150m divers. Do you have any hints on places where I can find a watch as this, or what calibers are most common? I intend to use it, not just collecting. I have seen some with the smaller crown, but not to fond of those.
Audun, Norway
Hi Audun, thank you for visiting my blog. Sorry that you missed out on the B53206, they rarely come up. None of the vintage Citizen mechanical divers are common – you are most likely to see the 52-0110 model, which uses the 8200 automatic movement, then it would probably be the 62-6198 with the 6000 movement. A plus point for getting the 52-0110 those is that 8200 parts are available through ‘donor’ watches. Not surprisingly the earlier the diver model, the rarer it is, and some are, as the saying goes, ‘rarer than hen’s teeth’! Other than eBay, the sales forum at SCWF (Seiko and Citizen Watch Forum) might be worth looking at (see the link in my ‘blogroll’ to take a look if you don’t know it already. The other possibility is the Yahoo Japan auctions (no eBay in Japan), but you have to buy through a third party service like ‘Buyee’ or ‘Japamart’, so there are extra costs to factor in. There aren’t very many divers even on Yahoo Japan and good examples command high prices, but it’s certainly worth a look.
Stephen
Many thanks! Seems like it is possible to find a 52-0110 on ebay, though I will wait for the right one. Looks like they are quite rare even on SCWF.
Hey Stephen, when I first time found your fantastic blog my rolex passion turn to citizen maniac and seikos also stepped aside so its your fault my watchfever got worse:) luckily with less money;)
I have now several divers, 68-xxx, 62-xxxx, 52-xxxx (thanks to you I can now inspect all little diffrencies in dials and whatever there is) and because my modest (little) watchmaker skills Ill manage doing little restoring by myself but…It seems to be always same problem: when Ill buy new watches in sensible condition or donor watches there is always missing mercedes style hands! (Diver style) I mean always, so can you tell me where I can find original hand sets ( one or two) or replacement style, ofcourse worn up vintage is my passion but somtimes you have to give up, 90’s style big flat sword hands are terrific and I hate them, anyway, thank you so much for this lesson in citizen divers and also to all readers, all questions are very important to get usefull knowledge!
Hi Samu, thanks for visiting my blog and for your very kind comments. I don’t know whether to apologise or congratulate you for becoming a Citizen fan! 🙂 Well done on getting your divers, they’re are no too easy to get hold of. I’m afraid I don’t know of any source for original hand sets for these, I can only suggest donor watches and that you re-lume the hands – here’s one on eBay for the 8200 movement: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-CITIZEN-150M-DIVER-51-2273-Automatic-Gents-Parts-Watch-AsIs-/131280284101?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e90ea29c5
Stephen
Hi,
I was wondering if the movement 8210a in the 52-0110 diver could be replaced by a brand new 8200 movement, is it compatible? The size seems the same 25.6mm 5.2mm.
Kind regards,
Bart
Hi Bart, thanks for visiting my blog. Good question! I am not a watchmaker / restorer so I can’t be absolutely certain. The 8200 has been developed over the years, but I guess it remains fundamentally the same. You’d want the 8215 Miyota movement since that is date only. I’ve had a look at an image of a new movement and compared it with my 1970’s one and it looks to be the same design, beyond cosmetic difference to the rotor. See here for info: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk. If you search for ‘Citizen’, then scroll down the page where you can find and compare the 82xx movements. The 8210 was the original used in the 52-0110.
Stephen
Hello Stephen,
I just wrote and tried to post, but it seems it didn’t go through… so if this is a repeat, please excuse. Great job you’ve done here; lots of helpful information, and I’m sure it took a great deal of time compiling it all. Congratulations and many thanks!
I’m writing about my Ladies Citizen Quartz GN-4-S. I believe it’s never been used; in original (plastic) box, marked Citizen, with plastic C. tag on rope hanging from watch, and paper wrap on the leather band. It has a Cream colored face, lumed hour, minute and second hands, date indicator, gold colored case, tachymeter that goes up to 500. On face: Citizen Quartz, Water Resist, and at bottom edge, MOV’T JAPAN DIAL TAIWAN 6010-50904Z SMS.
On back of case: Citizen Watch Co, Water Resist, (these two are covered in part by a circular silver sticker that looks like it has a faded hologram of watch hands on it, don’t know if more info is hidden under, didn’t want to remove it), Base Metal YP (yellow plate?),
6010-S15656 SMG, 00501412 (serial number?), GN-4-S, this followed by a stamped block arrow pointing to a number 5.
It has a lovely dark brown leather band, which still has the paper/cardboard packaging attached.
What if anything, can you tell me about this watch? Is it in fact a diver? There’s no meter rating, as far as I can tell, unless it’s under the sticker on the back. Also would you have any idea of it’s value? I’d planned on selling it, but may change my mind and keep it for myself if it’s a good swimming watch.. It’s very delicate design, but very sturdy and functional looking, A gorgeous watch, even for a quartz. 🙂
Many thanks, I appreciate any help you can give me!
Al the best, Melanie
Hi Melanie, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comments, they are much appreciated 🙂 Your first try did appear for me to ‘approve’ so I have deleted that one – the blog software requires that all comments have to be approved by me before they appear.
I have been able to have a look at your watch on the web – it is in very nice condition and it’s good to see the box and tag etc. I am not an expert on quartz models, especially relatively recent ones, so please bear that in mind when reading this reply. Since it has a dial made in Taiwan, I would think it is from May 2000 – from the first three digits in the serial number, 00501412. It could date from 1990; I’m afraid I don’t know for sure which it is.
You are right that ‘YP’ is yellow plate, and the ‘->5’ indicates where the back has an indent for prising it off, i.e. at the 5 0’clock position. The watch isn’t a diver, although it has a sporty design. The tachymeter bezel is used for measuring speed. If it were a diver it would have a bezel showing minutes and the dial would have a depth rating. The ‘water resist’ mark indicates that the case and crystal are designed to stop water getting, but it would only be at a basic level say when splashed in the rain – definitely not suitable for swimming, nor for showering in either!
I’m really not sure about value – collectors aren’t looking for quartz models unless they are very early and/or very rare and/or ‘high end’. I can only suggest searching for similar watches and what they have sold for.
Hope this helps a little,
Stephen
Hi there Stephen, Thanks so much, you’ve been a huge help! I’d listed my watch on ebay, and added “diver” in the description only this morning, after having read so much abut there watches that seemed similar. Seemed being th operative word, LOL… anyway, about to go change the description now. Also good to know it isn’t waterproof… way to ruin a watch after it’s survived all those years! Anyway, thanks again, you are very generous and it is much appreciated, by many, I’m sure! And I’ll be on the lookout for a real citizen diver after all I’ve read here! All the best to you, Melanie
You’re welcome Melanie – good luck with the auction 🙂
Stephen
Привет,Стивен!Потрясающий блог!Спасибо!Помогите разобраться с моим Cinizen.Citizen Automatic WR-100 GN-4-S 8228-824423 TA-внутри корпуса,8228-815898-на циферблате.Какого года часы и качество образца? Заранее спасибо и мой Вам респект.Игорь Соколовский.Украина.
Привет,Игорь
Спасибо за посещение моего блога и за ваши теплые комментарии 🙂 Ваши часы более поздние, чем я знаком с, но, насколько я знаю, это было сделано в период в 1990-х. Движения, 8228, представляет собой вариант 8200, Автомат, с окном в циферблате Показать спускового. Я считаю, она имеет стекло обратно, поэтому, вероятно, имеет серийный номер. Это означает, что мы не можем дать точную дату производства. Я не видел многие из них, поэтому я боюсь, что я не знаю, какие цены заплатил за них.
Вот ссылка на ссылку сайт, который дает производство Дата как примерно в 1990 году для этого движения: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Citizen_8228A
И вот «Alterna» модель, которая выглядит иметь этого движения, от 1999 года: http://citizen.jp/discovery/model/1990lt/vo10-5665s.html
Я надеюсь, это полезно, и что он-лайн переводчик сделал хорошую работу!
Стивен
[Hi Igor,
thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment 🙂 Your watch is more recent than the period I am familiar with, but as far as I know it was made in the in the 1990s. The movement, 8228, is a version of the 8200 automatic, with a window in the dial to show the escapement. I believe it has a glass back, so probably has no serial number. This means we can not give an exact date of production. I have not seen many of these, so I am afraid that I do not know what kind of prices are paid for them.
Here is a link which to a reference site that gives the production date as around 1990 for this movement: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Citizen_8228A
And here is an ‘Alterna’ model which looks to have this movement, dated 1999: http://citizen.jp/discovery/model/1990lt/vo10-5665s.html
I hope this is helpful, and that the on-line translator has done a good job!]
Hi Stephen!
This is a very nice blog that you have. I enjoyed readind and learning about this watch. For example, the Citizen watch piled up in my souvenir boxes.. :from what I was told, I always thought that it was made prior to the 1960’s. From your blog though, I learned that it is more in the late 70’s as it has ‘water resistant’ encrypted (my english is not great so i hope I got this right).
I would really appreciate if you can provide me with more details for my watch and also perhaps if you have an idea of its sale value as I entend to sell it (is ebay the best place?).
It is a women watch, frame and bracelet are gold color. It has the day and date. 21 Jewel is marked on the front bottom with a picture of wings (red in the center) a flag (i think it’s wings but could be something else). On the front, top, ‘automatic’ is written under ‘citizen’.
On the back:
citizen watch co.
water resistant
base metal top
stainless steel back
4-280407 KT
9083296
74-7408
japan
GP
Thank you so much! I appreciate all your help!
Hi Monique, thanks for visiting my blog, and good to hear you have enjoyed reading it. Can you tell me if the logo on the dial is like the one on this example?: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/citizen-automatic-21-jewels-watch-700097.html
Stephen
Hi Stephen, I hope you had a very nice Christmas with your loved ones.
Thank you for taking the time to read my post. Yes, the logo is the same.
Monique
thank you Monique, I’ve had a very good Christmas – I hope the same goes for you. Thanks for confirming that your watch has the same emblem as the one in the link. You are right that they are wings, the emblem is a stylised eagle, and the watch is one of the ‘Eagle 7’ range of automatic watches Citizen first made in the 1980s. Many models were made, right through to the 1990s, using the 8200 automatic movement first produced in 1976. Very occasionally a different movement is found in these but it’s most likely an 8200. Yours is a gold plated model (‘GP’) over a ‘base metal’ (alloy) case. 4-280407 is the case number – frequently this will indicate the movement inside, but this one doesn’t. 74-7408 is the model number, which doesn’t help much these days without the relevant casing parts manual that a watch maker would use to check part numbers etc when doing a service or repair.
9083296 is the serial number and this helps us date the watch. Due to this movement being used in the 1980s and 1990s, we have to make best guess about which year it was made, from the first digit in the serial number, i.e. ‘9’. I think, from the style of the case and model numbers, it is probably from 1989. ’08’ tells us it was made in August of that year. Although the 8200 calibre is a sound and reliable movement, it was not a high grade model, and many were sold so there are plenty to be found on eBay. Unfortunately their value is not great as a result.
I hope this is helpful, and apologies for the delay in replying,
Stephen
Thank you Stephen, I had a very nice Christmas and exceptionally warm (for Canada).
I really appreciate all the information that you provided to me so quickly. Thank you again and congratulations on your great new acquisition!
Happy New Year!
Monique
You’re welcome 🙂 It should be cold in Canada!!
All the best for 2015,
Stephen
Hi Stephan,
First of all, thanks for this fantastic source of information. I can imagine maintaining your blog takes a huge effort so thanks very much for that.
I have been a “Citizen early quartz diver guy” for many years but I am slowly converting to a “Citizen early automatic diver guy”. Your blog is a main reason for that.
Recently, i struck gold and bought a B52806 from it’s first original owner. The outside looks rough and well used but dial and hands are spotless. These watches are so well constructed! Mine never got any moist into it I’m sure. It keeps perfect time and I’m in love with the Sweeping Hand…..
Unfortunately, it does not have the original bracelet. Can you help me with that or show me the way to find one? Your help is much appreciated.
All the best for the new year from Holland,
Bert
PS: if you need pictures of the watch for publication or your personal archive just let me know.
Hi Bert, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your kind comments – much appreciated 🙂 Great to hear you have got hold of a B52806, one of the rarer 150m divers, and good to hear (though I’m not surprised!) that it is running well. Finding an original bracelet is a huge ask – I think we can identify what style it would have been, but then finding one with the appropriate curved end links is going to be very difficult. Let’s see what it might look like – I think there are three possible options that we can be fairly sure about. The B52806 was the export version of the the 62-5370 model, so first here’s a scan of a German catalog from the late 1960s showing a diver on a bracelet:
There is no model or case number given though, but it is from the right time period.
The 62-5370 has a case number of 4-540115, so second, here is a scan from a 1971 catalog showing one of these, with a different kind of bracelet:
At least we know that this style was used on the same watch as yours, although this one is not the export version.
Finally, here is a pic from my archives of a 62-5370 on a different style – I don’t know for sure if this was original to the watch, but that style was made in the 1960s and it looks to match the case:
I have found an example of this last kind up for auction at the moment on Yahoo Japan. I’ll get an email to you with details.
Stephen
I liked all washes
Hi there!
I am looking for technical drawings of a 5270 movement. Does anyone here have something on hand or does someone know, where I can find them? I already addressed Citizen Service in Germany – they told me they do not have drawings or parts…
Thanks!
Michael
Hi Michael – thanks for visiting my blog 🙂 Here are two schematics for the 52xx movement. If these are what you are looking for, you should be able to copy them. If you want me to email them to you please let me know.
Stephen
Hi Stephen!
That’s great and better than I expected! I have a friend who is currently restoring two of my vintage citizen two crown divers – he needs some support… If you could be so kind to mail me the pics, that would a big support!
Michael
email sent 🙂
Stephen
Thanks and received – someone will be very happy tomorrow!
Michael
You’re welcome Michael – good to hear that you have two x two crown divers 🙂
Stephen
Hi there,
does anyone have an idea where I can find new crystals for 5270 (21 jewels): Twin Crowns Divers?
They seem to be very special…
Thanks,
Michael
Hi Michael – it’s very difficult indeed to find any oem parts for these. The crystal is a plastic one, so can be polished effectively if it’s not scratched too deeply or cracked. The part number for your divers is 54-0145, but I can’t find any supply of these. Original crystals for vintage Citizens can be found on Yahoo Japan, but nothing on there at the moment for yours. I’m checking one other possible source but I don’t hold out much hope I’m afraid.
Stephen
I have a gn- 4w- a, wondering what it might be worth.
80603103
Hi Eric, thanks for visiting my blog. ‘GN’ code is the case type, so that doesn’t identify the model. Can you let me know what other numbers are on the case back please, e.g. case number – 4-xxxxxx and /or model number xx-xxxx, and what other markings are there, and on the dial. Thanks,
Stephen
Hi Steve
Can you get in touch via my email, I have a few corrections for this reference page.
Cheers Paul “1386paul”
Hi Paul, email sent 🙂
Hi Paul /Steven, glad you caught up and sorted out the corrections that were needed.
Hi Mark – Paul’s been a great help in getting the page amended and updated. I confess that the divers are not my most familiar territory. Just need an image now of an orange 62-6198 and a fully correct blue dialled 52-0110…..
Stephen
Hi I was looking through my grandpa’s old chest and I found a watch and I want to know what year it is are and what is it’s value. (this one I could not find anything about)
citizen watch co.
water resist
Base metal YP
4-039335SMK
10300251
GN-4w-s
it’s also a 21 jewel automatic
Hi Liam, thanks for visiting my blog. Your watch has the 8200 automatic movement inside. These movements were made for over 30 years so it is difficult to pin down the year of production. So unfortunately I can only say it was made either in March 1981 or March 1991. Although the movement is sound and reliable in good condition, they are often sold on eBay and don’t have great deal of value I’m afraid. If you search eBay, for example with ‘vintage Citizen 21 jewels’ you can get an idea of what they go for.
Stephen
Hi Stephen
I have 68-5372 with red date and 67-5776 orange diver with original orange bezel
I will send you pics
please email me!
Hi Samu, would love to see pics – email on the way 🙂
Stephen
Hello, Found this page so interesting. I’m using my Grandfathers old watch, since you have such vast knowledge (read almost all of your replies!) i would like to know more about it. You could email me i can even send u pictures of it. just 2 years back i found it in his drawer. and it works fine. a mechanic even checked it and said it will work for a guaranteed 30 years more. Its an automatic.It means a lot to me.
on the back this is what is written:-
CITIZEN WATCH.CO
4-063155 SM
0 1 0 6 6 5 6 2
GN-4-S
71-2159
Hi Savio – thanks for visiting my blog, and I’m glad you have found it interesting. It’s great to hear that you are using your Grandfather’s watch 🙂 I think you have an ‘Eagle 7’ model, and I’d be very happy to see photos so I’ll send an email.
Stephen
Hi Stephen. The web pages are a great resource, well done & thanks. Could you help me identify a watch from a description. As a child I was given a very small mechanical divers watch, this would be about 1974. Stainless case, black face, mechanical, but not automatic. Rotating bezel. The rear was engraved with the outline of a diver, but not a diver armed with a spear gun. The watch was really very small (I would have been 8 years old). Could this have been a Citizen watch?
Hi Martin, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your kind comments. I’m afraid I don’t know of a Citizen diver that fits the description – the only diver engraving I know of is the one on the page, with spear gun I think the only hand winding diver was a ladies watch, called a ‘Date Seine’which had a fairly plain back:
I hope you can find your watch – it sounds cool to have had a diver model when you were just 8 years old! 🙂
Stephen
thanks for the reply Stephen. It’s not the ladies watch you have shown. It was really very small. I am a little surprised I was given it. I had wanted one for some reason (who knows why a child wants something) but there were lots of things I wanted but life wasn’t like that back then. Years later my mother told me she had searched all over looking for a divers watch small enough for me. The watch had a hard life and I lost it years ago. But my memory of it was that it was good quality. I am very curious to know what it was.
You’re welcome – sorry I can’t help more, I hope you can find info on the watch
Stephen
Never realised what high regard my old citizen diver 52-0110 was held in! Bought it in 1978 in Schipol Airport Duty-Free on my way to my first Red Sea dive. Been wearing it every day since and it still keeps good time. Serviced only once. Literally just now replaced the original bezel insert with a repro one from Crystaltimes. Looks great! New PU rubber and s/s oyster bracelet on their way. Just bought myself an Invicta as a replacement. Shouldn’t have bothered. That will be a dress watch but the Citizen will carry on as my everyday “tool” watch. Had a lifetime of great adventures all over the world with it. 🙂
Hi Richard, thanks for visiting my blog – it’s great to hear from someone who has owned his watch form new 🙂 Mark beat me to it – we want pics! And maybe some more stories about where you’ve dived with it…..
If you would be kind enough to share pics, you aren’t able to post them direct here, but can link to somewhere if you have uploaded them. Otherwise I an email you and you can send them to me to upload. Let me know if you want to do that.
Stephen
Hi Richard after such a big write up like. that how about some pictures of your beauty. A life time of adventures is worth a couple of pic;s
Cheers
Mark
Echo that 🙂
There is a 100 m 520343 with straight hourchand for sale at ebay now, I motiver you only had an ad showing this watch
Thanks Audun – no budget available at the moment 🙂
Stephen
i have a citizen crystal seven i cant find any information on, maybe you can help, on the back it says parameter, star, ACSS2904-Y, S.S.
Hi Chuck, thanks for visiting my blog. Citizen made a range of Crystal Sevens in the mid to late 1960s, using the 52 family of movements. These are good quality movements running at 18,000 beats per hour, and were fitted with hardened mineral glass, hence the ‘crystal’ name, and had day and date windows. If you can let me know how many jewels it has I should be able to tell you exactly which movement is inside. In good condition they run very accurately – I’ve just worn one of mine for nearly two weeks and not had to adjust it – here’s a piece on it which also gives more info about these watches: https://sweep-hand.org/2011/06/23/this-weeks-featured-watch-8-the-crystal-seven-27-jewels/
Yours should have an eight figure serial number on the back – the first number in it gives the year of production and since these were only made in the 1960s this will tell you exactly which year (they were first made in 1965).
Stephen
It is 27 jewels with sn 70700574 with gn below that, thank you
So it’s from July 1967 – in fact the movement could be one of four versions, all of which had 27 jewel variants – 5201, 5202, 5203, 5204 – the only way to tell is to take the back off and the number will be stamped near the balance wheel. ‘GN’ is the case type code which means it is a water resistant design with a screw down back.
Stephen
Hi Stephen, perhaps you can help me with additional information about my black dialed “commando” branded compressor style citizen from 1969. 4-520343 Y, 61-5111, dial 520766-D, ser 912xxxxx. Though the hour and minute and seem conventional, the second hand is unusual in that it has the ball with pointer, not just the ball. All the lume seems consistent in color and luminescence brightness/ decay. There appear to be two holes where the citizen badge might ordinarily have been mounted underneath the commando label. The only similar photograph I could find is one I think you’re familiar with on an old moon dater. I hope you can view the photos here:
http://photobucket.com/share/email?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs284.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Flpdand%2Flibrary%2FMobile%2520Uploads%3Fsrc%3Dpb
Thanks!
Peter
Hi Peter, thanks for visiting my blog. Your watch is certainly interesting – that type of second hand is used on another twin crown diver but it is a different model, with case number 4-521315. The standard one on the 4-520343 has, as you know, the lume ball at the end. However I have seen it on one other 61-5111 so it’s quite possible that this is an original fitting. The ‘Commando’ brand on the dial is something of a puzzle. I have seen the Moon Dater before, where it is printed in place of the usual applied Citizen logo. I’m afraid I’m not convinced yours is an original, i.e. factory made, design. I wouldn’t have thought that Citizen would use a dial that had been pierced for the normal Citizen logo to be applied, so that the holes remain visible. Also the ‘Commando’ logo is printed over the vertical cross hair line and is not centred over the gap in the line where the applied logo would normally sit. These things suggest to me a later modification, since Citizen would have produced it to a better quality as seen on the Moon Dater.
Stephen
Thanks Stephen! I enjoy wearing the watch and appreciate knowing it’s likely history. Cheers, Peter
You’re welcome Peter 🙂
Hi Stephen and Peter,
There was interesting two crown diver Commando in Citizen Facebook page. Its very interesting as the case is something I have not seen before:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/vintagecitizenwatches/search/?query=commando
Best,
-MIKKO-
Hi Mikko, I’d like a closer look at that diver – I wonder if the case is correct or has been modded, and I’ve never seen a fluted bezel on one of these.
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
What a lovely blog with lots of information hard to find and put together, thanks for your effort.
I have a 62-6198. It was given to me by my uncle, I made a whole cleaning and was lucky enough to find a brand new bezel insert and glass from eBay. Relume applied now, I’m wearing with pride.
The serial is 51100373, it’s made on November 1975, am I right?
All the best from istanbul
Emre
Hi Emre, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your kind comments. Your watch sounds very nice – I assume you got the after market bezels and crystals from ‘Crystaltimes’, they are very good quality. You’re exactly right about the production date 🙂 Did your uncle buy it when it was new?
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
Yes actually my uncle bought it brand new, then when he purchased a submariner :), citizen moved to me :))
By the way, yes I noticed sadly that the bezel insert is after market and not NOS after I purchased it. I still keep the originals but don’t want to use them, cause the pearle is almost gone and the rest is quite scratched.
Would you like to have some photos? I didnt see a way to publish on your blog.
Emre
Hi Emre – an original bezel insert would be just about impossible to find. The after market ones are very good and made to the original specs. It would be great to see pics, but I’m afraid visitors can’t post pics here, only I can do that. If you have uploaded the pics somewhere you can post a link, or I can email you and you could send them to me to upload.
Stephen
I sure learned a lot from this blog/site!
I have mostly American and Swiss made watches but when I see an older affordable Citizen or Seiko I jump on it. Last one was a Citizen diver model number 62-6198 in pretty good condition but someone had stuck an acrylic crystal down in the case on top of the original crystal gasket. I measured the gasket and ordered a mineral glass crystal 31.3mm x 2.5mm and installed it. The 2.5mm crystal was the thickest one the supply house had in tenths of a mm. They have 3.0mm thick crystals but they only come in even sizes…31.0mm, 32.0mm etc.
Here is the problem…the top of the crystal is about 1.5mm below the top surface of the bezel insert. Is this the way it is supposed to be? I can not tell if there is this much space above the crystal from the pictures of similar models.
Any help would be appreciated.
Hi Rick, thanks for visiting my blog and I’m glad that you are finding it useful. The crystal on the 62-6198 should be slightly raised above the bezel as far as I know. Here are a couple of pics that may help:
You can get a replacement specifically made for this diver from eBay, item number: 351384746251
Stephen
Thank you for the tip! I ordered a crystal for it along with a new bezel insert and will keep the old insert to go with the watch if I sell it. The watch was made in February 1976 and is the first one I can remember seeing for sale locally (TN).
You’re welcome Rick. TN – is that Tennessee?
Stephen
Yep, Tennessee. Not many vintage Citizen watches around here.
Makes it all the more special 🙂
Sweet blog-post! Lots of useful information and conversations – and still active. Thanks for that, sweephand.
Of course i have a question as well, hope somebody can help. Is there a search term for the balance hairspring of the Citizen 6001 movement that could help me searching this as a spare part? An already assembled balance set would be good as well. Maybe there are even hairsprings of other manufactures an calibers that would fit?
All hints (besides “go scavenge e-bay for the same caliber” – which i do already) are welcome.
Cheers
Desperate
Hi Desperate (Dan?) – thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment. I’ll try to help – what is the model of the watch you have that needs the parts, is it the 62-6198 diver?
Stephen
Hi,
Great blog and info!
I was hoping you could help ID the date this Citizen quartz diver was made.
On the back it says: 340141, GN -4-8, 2510-8004501.
Watch face has: Japan mvmt/ 2510-8008081 KA
Hi Jordan – thanks for visiting my blog. The 2510 quartz movement is much more recent than the era I’m familiar with. I think it is most likely from April 1993,
Stephen
Thanks for the quick reply. I can send photos, too. Can’t find anything like it on the Internet.
If you have uploaded pics somewhere you can post a link here, but not directly. I can email you if you want me to upload here – just let me know,
Stephen
I would like to email the photos to you. Would be great to get an opinion on this watch. Thanks.
Ok 🙂 email on the way
Hi Jordan, thanks for the pic. In my opinion the style of the case back confirms what I thought earlier, that this is most likely from 1993:
Stephen
Thanks for your help!
You’re welcome 🙂
Hi Stephen,
I just received my blue diver 61-5773 parawater from 1969 and am very enthousiatic about it.
You wrote “Case Number: APSS 52904-Y (23j) or 4-520858 Y (21j, export ‘proof’ model)” however just wanted to let you know that mine is tagged 4-520858 Y while it has 23 jewels and seven star, so the information is incorrect I guess…
[IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/auwa39.jpg[/IMG]
Cheers,
Bart
I too have a model 4-720521 Y also in blue. I really miss having this beauty on my wrist. I accidentally dropped it and the bearing of the self-winder disintegrated. The watch case is filled with tiny balls. If I can find another bearing I might find someone to repair the watch. Where can I buy a replacement bearing?
Hi Andre, thanks for visiting my blog. Email on the way. Stephen
Hi Bart – thank you for visiting and your comment. Nice to see your watch, and also very helpful to see that it is a 23 jewel version with that case number. I’ve just found another example on Yahoo Japan which confirms exactly what you are telling me 🙂 SO I have made a correction to the page to include 23 jewels against case number 4-520858. It’s always good that other people’s knowledge contributes to this blog, it’s what I’ve always intended. Thanks again,
Stephen
Hi Stephen
I’ve just happenchanced across this Japanese site at http://www.wa.commufa.jp/~bunta/div.html – where there’s some great pix of vintage Citizen (and Seiko 6215) divers including a couple of 40 metre parawater Auto Daters. Worth a look .
Thanks for both an interesting and informative reference site.
Best wishes – Howard
Hi Howard – thanks for visiting my blog and for posting the link. I know that site very well – some stunning and very rare pieces to be found 🙂
Stephen
I have an older Citizen, probably from 1970’s. On the back: 4-310051 Y; Parawater S.S. 90512717. On the front: Citizen Alarm Date; 21 jewels. It’s in fair condition, has surface scratches. As far as I know, everything is original , no repairs. Has been in a drawer for the last 30 years. Can you tell me anything about it? Where can I find approximate value?
Thank you,
Mark
Hi Mark, thank you for visiting my blog 🙂 Your alarm date is from May 1969 (from first three number in the serial number). Citizen used a Swiss design for their alarm watches, first producing them in 1958 with the ’98’ movement, later using the ’31’ version, as in yours, from 1964. The same design was later used by the Russian manufacturer ‘Poljot’. ‘4-310051’ is the case number, but I can’t find any images of it on the internet – have you any photos uploaded that you could post a link to? (I’m afraid you can’t post any pics here directly). Vintage alarm watches are collectable, especially in good condition. The best way to get some idea of value is to search eBay (including ‘completed listings’) to see if you can find a similar model – ‘vintage Citizen alarm’ should get some results. Stainless steel will usually have higher value these days than gold plated ones.
Stephen
Hello, i have a 1967 crystal seven that no longer works, i sent it off through kay jewelers to have it repaired and it cant be done because the parts have been discontinued, do you have any recomendations as to where or how to get it working again, thanks chuck in alabama
Hi Chuck – probably the best way to source parts is to find a donor watch. Do you know what parts are needed? Movement parts are probably easier to find than casing parts which are specific to the model, for example dial and hands. Which model and case is it (model number is in form of ’12-3456′, case number is ‘4-123456’)?
Stephen
No they didnt specifiy whick parts were needed, im pretty sure they didnt even open the watch. I dont see any numbers in that format, S.S. parawater star ACSS2904-Y in the outer ring on case back and Crystal seven automatic 70700574 gn in the center, hope this helps
Hi Chuck – your watch has the older style of model number (ACSS2904). This was also given two later case numbers for stainless steel – 4-520459 and 4-521625, and also a gold plated model: 4-520475. 70700574 is the serial number, giving a production date of July 1967. I can recommend Brian Leiser, whose work is featured on my blog, for service – I don’t know whether he can get Crystal Seven (i.e. 52 movement) parts, but donors can be found. Let me know if you want his contact details.
Stephen
Pictures here: http://s772.photobucket.com/user/marksh926/library/?sort=3&page=1
Hi Mark – thanks for the link to your photos. This model is not often seen, and it’s good to see the original bracelet too.
Stephen
Hi,
I have had a watch for many years and wondering if you could provide me with a value of what it potentially worth.
It’s a sweeping hand citzen watch the small code at bottom of the face is p8200-812061-y
Many thanks
Ray
Hi Ray, thanks for visiting my blog. Although the dial code tells me that your watch has the 8200 automatic movement inside, it would be helpful to have some more information. Can you please tell me what else is on the dial, and particularly what is stamped on the case back,
thanks,
Stephen
Hey guys, came across a weird citizen that I some questions about. It an ice hockey citizen. The second hand is a hockey player that goes around the perimeter of the face. It has a big 77 on the face. It also has Tokyo and ice hockey on the face. Its an automatic. On the back it says Mr. Japan. Maybe you guys can tell me something about it because I can’t find anything. Thanks.
Hi Al – I replied to your comment on 8th October, it’s on the Handwinders page.
Stephen
Hi, great site, glad to have found it.
I collect many Citizens, mainly Divers, having many Promaster’s over the time, but I recently went for ‘7’ , just to see what they are like against a few of my Seiko 5’s and Orient 3 stars.
This came for ebay and I’ve yet to receive it in terms of getting a caseback picture, but would you be able to help with any info on model, age etc?
Any info would be gratefully received.
Many thanks, Rich, UK
http://s653.photobucket.com/user/TheEmperorMing/media/_571.jpg.html
Hi Rich, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your kind comment. Apologies for my slow reply. The Eagle 7 range is a bit later than the focus of my collection, but I can tell you that the 8200 automatic movement was first produced in 1976, and soon became Citizen’s workhorse mechanical automatic watch. It was produced for over 30 years, so they can be difficult to date – the Eagle 7’s are no earlier than 1980, but they were made through to the 1990, so yours will be from that period. Please let me know what’s on the case back when you receive the watch, and we may be able to pin it down more accurately.
Stephen
Thanks for the reply Stephen, will get some further pics and send them through.
Thanks again, Rich
You’re welcome Rich 🙂
Hi Stephen,
Congratulations on a great website and blogg, it is highly informative.
I was hoping you could help me in relation to an old Citizen diving watch which my father gave to me on my 18th birthday in 1973.
The front shows it is a Citizen ChronoMaster, Chronometer – Para500Mwater -33J The rear states it is a SS Parawater Citizen 4-540263.
It is still working and was used constantly in my younger days whilst diving, the band is non original and the bezel has scratches from use.
Is this a watch I should pass on to my son or is it worth selling?
http://s1039.photobucket.com/user/harry20326/media/Citizen%20Watch/Watch%20face_zpsrkwg1zlf.jpg.html
http://s1039.photobucket.com/user/harry20326/media/Citizen%20Watch/Rear%20watch%20close%20up_zpsmvwzfyby.png.html
Best Regards
Harry
Hi Harry, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comments. Your diver is a rare and very collectable piece. It is rarely seen for sale, and is particularly interesting since it holds Citizen’s high end, chronometer rated 33 jewel movement and is rated to an impressive 500m. I’m not a diver expert, but I don’t think there are many ‘officially certified’ chronometer divers. In terms of sale value, this model is definitely valuable, although the condition of the bezel insert will affect value, as will the engraving on the back – many collectors prefer not to see engraving other than the original marks, so it’s hard to be precise. Correct case parts would be nigh on impossible to find. Having said that, one of these with an incorrect bezel (the metal part as well as the insert) sold on eBay for over $2000 (over £1300) a couple of years ago, and I saw a correct but broken one sell on Yahoo Japan for over $4000 (over £2600). If you were to sell, then alerting collectors beforehand would be a good idea – there are not too many such people so this is generally not a well known model. Hope this helps!
Stephen
Thank you Stephen for your quick response.
Your comments about value have blown me away, I will now consider trying to sell it, do you have any clues on how I could alert collectors and would ebay be the best method. For your info I reside in Australia.
Kind regards
Harry
Hi Harry – besides this blog there are a couple of forums and another blog where mention could be made of your watch. Ebay is the obvious choice for an open auction, especially if you want to get to a worldwide market, although it’s a shame there’s no Japanese eBay since there are Citizen collectors there. There are risks with Ebay auctions of course, especially with a valuable item, so another option is to see if any collectors are interested first. You’d have to determine a selling price, and be careful to get references for any potential buyer. There are a few people I’m aware of in Australia who collect Citizens and / or divers, but I don’t know whether they have budgets available!
Stephen
Hi Stefan,
Great blog and info!
I was hoping you could help ID the date this Citizen Automatic 21 Jewels was made.
On the back it says:
CITIZEN
Watch Co.
4-063058 SMT
91138026
72-0577
Hi everbody,
I have one.
Case Nr. : 4-610512 Y
Model Nr. 64-7551
Ser. Nr. : 9111647
My watch (I don’t know how can to post images.)
https://onedrive.live.com/?id=CF316BE86A2872F8%21314&cid=CF316BE86A2872F8
Hi Yakuda – only I am allowed to post pics directly on my blog, but your link is fine 🙂 Your watch is a women’s model, which was known in Japan as a ‘Cosmostar Date’. Yours is an export model since the dial isn’t marked with that name, and is marked ‘waterproof’ rather than ‘parawater’. The ‘waterproof’ mark tells us it was not made later than about 1972 or 1973, so the serial number gives a production date of November, 1969 (‘911’). The 6600 21 jewel hand winding high best movement in these is a real gem, running at 28,800 beats per hour, it has a smoothly sweeping second hand and is capable of very accurate time-keeping.
Stephen
Thank you sir.
You’re welcome 🙂
Why I can’t see my post?
Hi Yakuda – thanks for visiting my blog. Since this is a blog, not a forum where people have to sign up to the rules and register, I have to approve first comments before they appear, so there can be a delay sometimes.
Stephen
OK I get it sir.
Hi Kelvin, i’m interesested in your watch too !!! ⌚️
All the best, Bert
Hi Bert.
I will sell the watch as my family have now decided they will let me!
Trusted buyers only, no eBay/Paypal nonsense.
Value?
Open to genuine offers, plus shipping.
Hi Kelvin,
Let’s no longer (mis)use the Blog for our conversation. Can you please contact me at bert dot roadkingclassic at gmail dot com
all the best, Bert
Thanks Bert – although very happy for people to flag this kind of thing up here.
Stephen
Hi can you please tell me how old is the citizen 62-5213 automatic 4-540077 T i got it from my grand Farther after he past away and would like to know more about it
Thanks
Hi Louis, thanks for visiting my blog. Your watch is from the late 1960s. Is there a serial number on the back? If so it will probably have be an 8 figure number. We can date it exactly from that.
Stephen
Hi, really enjoyed reading the blog. Never realized that Citizen had so many cool vintage watches. I have a Citizen Automatic with 21 jewels. it has a greenish gold face with date only. There are no numbers on the face. Just raised gold blocks. The watch is rectangular with a round face. Around the edges on the back, it says Water Resistant, Citizen, Automatic. The back face has the following: CGP, 6000, 4-600657Y, 40902067, 62-6465. On the metal band on the end of the clasp there is an owl stamped into the metal. The watch is working but after running 13 hours it is 35 minutes fast. Any information you can share is appreciated. The watch was found in a box after a family member passed and nobody knows anything about it.
Hi David – thanks for visiting my blog, and glad that you have enjoyed it 🙂
Your watch has the 6000 (date only) movement inside, which is a very nice calibre produced in the early 1970s. 4-600657 is the case number, also indicating a 6000 movement, and 62-6465 is the model number. Again, ’62’ was used for 6000 movement models. CGP tells us that the case is gold plated. The first three figures in the serial number – 40902067 – tell us that it was made in September 1974. I’m not sure about the ‘owl’ motif on the clasp, so that sounds like it is a placement for the original bracelet or strap. These movements run at 21,600 beats per hour, and in good condition they are reliable and accurate. Since the watch is running, it may just need a thorough clean and service to sort it out – dried up old oil may be causing the fast running. Although this is not a particularly valuable model, if it has sentimental value then a service may well get it back in good order and capable of use as a daily or occasional wearer. You would need to find a watchmaker who is familiar with vintage mechanical watches to ensure it is looked after properly.
Stephen
Thanks for the quick reply. I will look into taking it to a qualified watchmaker. Since the value is sentimental I will not feel bad about changing the band and enjoying the watch as one of my daily wearers.
You’re welcome David – I hope you can get it sorted out. Come back if you can’t find a local watchmaker and need advice.
Hi!
Very interesting blog!
I just took out two old Citizen watches from a drawer and now I am thinking of if I should start to use them again.
One is an 80s Divers so I guess it is not of your interest but the other one is an old automatic marked 4-600851 Y and is for sure a 70s watch. I put it away as the automatic function was not working. Do you know if there could be a possibility to mend it or not or maybe there are similar watches for sale at a decent price? (My is rather scratched as I used it in my teens.) Br /Johan
Hi Johan, thanks for visiting my blog. With case number of 4-600851 you have a 150m diver from the mid-1970s, like this example:
This model uses Citizen’s 6001 movement, running at 21,600 beats per hour. As with Citizen’s other 150m divers from that period, these are of great interest to collectors, so finding another one in decent condition will be quite an expensive option. It may well be possible to repair your watch – I guess it would be good to get yours up and running again after owning from your teens, and it is possible to find movement parts. Case parts are another story though, and it’s the opposite with them – they are (very) hard to find especially in good condition. There is one very good after market bezel insert and crystal available from time to time – not original of course but if yours are very worn and you want it to be more wearable (whilst keeping the original ones safe from further damage of course) then that is an option.
It’s possible that the auto winding rotor has come loose – can you hear anything rattling around? Sounds like it needs to be looked at by a good watchmaker who knows vintage mechanicals – the 6001 movement is a good one, so it may just need a thorough clean and service.
Stephen
Great article. A lot of thought and research in it. I have posted this link at the forum and invite people here to stop by or join the only uncensored watch forum. We have a lot of watch lovers there.
Thanks for your kind comments, and for making the link 🙂
Stephen
Hello Mr. Stephen,
Thanks for your great blog about vintage Citizen watch
Pleased give me some information about this watch
Citizen watch 4-653149K water resistan 50I All stainless steel 50301027
And Citizen watch 4-520068T parawater automatic S.S G-N-3U 90200032
Thank you very much
Hi Tan, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment. From the case and serial numbers you’ve provided here’s what I can tell you:
1) 4-653149 – I believe this is an automatic with day and date complications and the 6501 movement inside. First produced in 1971 this 21 jewel movement runs at 21,600 beats per hour and was often used with colourful dials and innovative case designs / materials. The serial number gives a production date of March 1975, and ‘water resistant’ had become the term by that time. Here’s a post on my example for more information: https://sweep-hand.org/2011/10/19/this-weeks-featured-watch-15-6501-with-tungsten-bezel/
2) 4-520068 – I think this is a Seven Star (deluxe?) model, with one of the 52 movements inside. This movement was first produced in 1965 and was used in the Crystal Seven and Seven Star lines. It runs at 18,000 beats per hour and has date and day complications. Yours is from February 1969. ‘Parawater’ was used by Citizen for ‘waterproof’ at that time, before watch manufacturers had to change to resistant in the early 1970s. Please let me know if I’m right about it being a Seven Star – if it isn’t then I guess it will be a Crystal Seven!
Stephen
thank for your quick reply,
your information are right, 2 watch are automatic too, and have day and date. Thank for your blog, i can guess exactly when they are made. two of them to day are still very good and beautiful, on time. Im very happy.
this is really useful blog. Thạnks a lot from Vietnam.
You’re welcome 🙂
Hi Mr. Stephen,
I am really amazed to see this great blog on
classic vintage CITIZENS …
I have inherited a black color watch and sadly, I know
nothing about this unique piece I am having…
I wanted to get information about that Citizen watch.
Inside the back case, it shows:
………………………….
CITIZEN WATCH
8200A UNADJUSTED
21 JEWELS
JAPAN
………………………….
and on the case it is written as
………………………….
CITIZEN
WATER RESISTANT
4-282080 KT (or RT maybe)
1 1 0 0 4 8 7 3
71 – 2831
GH – 4 – 5
……………
Sir I would be thankful to know about this unique watch, its manufacturing year its cost
and all that stuff related to this …
I would be waiting for your response …
God Bless You 🙂
Hi Hassaan, thank you for visiting my blog, and for your very kind comment. Your watch is an automatic, using the 8200 movement which was first produced around 1976. This movement was used for over 30 years, as it became Citizen’s ‘workhorse’ mechanical automatic. There’s more information for you here:
The marks on the back are the case number (4-282080) and the model number (71–2831) and these are typical of a watch with the 8200 movement. I think ‘GH–4–5’ is actually ‘GN-4-S’ which is the case type code, indicating a water resistant case and crystal design, with a screw down back. I’m pretty sure that yours is from October 1981 – this is taken from the first three figures in the serial number – 11004873. Serial numbers with eight figures like this are usually from earlier production years. I don’t know what these watches would have cost when they were first sold, and I’m afraid they don’t have any great value these days, since over the years very many were made so they are not rare these days. In good condition the movement is a strong and reliable one, capable of accurate time-keeping.
Stephen
Hi. Do you know where to get hands to a Citizen 62-6198.
Hi Jonas – I’m afraid I don’t. I don’t know anywhere that would have these, so the best advice I can give is to check for junk watches on eBay and if you are lucky enough to find one, get the hands re-lumed.
Stephen
I have a citizen watch GN-4-S model 4-039181 SMT, can some one the year of make?
Hi, thanks for visiting my blog. Some more information would help if you have it – can you please let me know what other marks are on the case back, especially if there is a number with 6, 7 or 8 figures in it. Also, can you please describe the dial and what markings are on it, andif there is a very small number printed beneath the 6 o’clock marker,
Stephen
Hi,
I’m wondering what diver model is Mathew McConaughey wearing in the HBO series True Detective? Thanks
Came across your site and wanted to share. I have a 4-520858 Y, 21j, export ‘proof’ model with an ORANGE dial in (more or less) mint shape (bar few scratches on the crystal). Yes, the hands are identical to the blue one above. I will be glad to donate few scans for your archive. Great job on documenting wonderful watches!
Out of curiosity, how rare are the ‘proof’ models?
Hi Vlad, thanks for visiting my site, and good to see you have one of the orange models. All variants of these watches are fairly rare, and the proof ones are scarcer than the parawater models I believe, so it’s a rare model. Thank you for offering scans for the archive, that would be great and very much appreciated, it will help make the diver page as comprehensive as possible. I’ll email you so you can send images – thanks again, Stephen
Hi I have a Citizen 63-1230 with 1800 Homer movement. The seria no is 40605399 and the case back has 4-1805515M. Could you pls help me with the date of manufacture and some more info on the movement.
Thank you for visiting my bog – the 1800 movement is the date version of the 02 Homer movement. It was launched in 1962, two years after the 02. The Homers were Citizen’s ‘workhorse’ hand winders, running at 18,000 beats per hour, and they proved to be reliable and reasonably accurate watches, and were made all the way to around 1980. An adjusted 21 jewel version with second setting was accurate enough to be issued to national railways staff. There’s more info on the base Homer movement here:
And the Family Tree shows the various versions and models using this movement and its derivatives, including the Chrono Master:
Click to access 020homerfamilytreev2secure.pdf
Your example is a relatively late one – the first three figures give the production date, providing we know the decade. The style of the case and model numbers are late 1960s/early 70s, so yours is from June 1974.
Stephen
thanks indeed for the enormous help.
You’re welcome 🙂
I see several of my forum members took my advice and dropped by including Jason_recliner. I have numerous links to your site and articles on the forum. I consider this the gold standard in regards to the information on Citizen watches. Drop by some time. http://www.watchlords.com
Koimaster aka Alain
Hi Alain, thanks for your kind comments, and the links you’ve made. I do have a quick look a your site from time to time 🙂 Stephen
Hi Stephen. I recently found a citizen automatic watch in my closet.Can u help me with the dating of the watch, also it’ll be great if you’d be able to give some additional info.
Thanks,
Dial : P-8200-989870-KY
Back : 4-283449 KT
60701507
71-3759
GN-4W-S
Hi Swapnil, thanks for visiting my blog, and apologies for my slow reply. Your watch has the 8200 day and date automatic movement. The ‘P’ in the dial code indicates that Promethium lume was used, whilst GN-4W-S is the case type code, indicating a water resistant case and crystal design. The case number – 4-283449 – and the model number – 71-3759 – are both typical of 8200 automatics. This movement was first made in 1975/6 and I think yours is from July 1986.
Stephen
Thank a lot Stephen! I actually saw the reply just a few days ago!
It was a very informative reply! Also, I forgot to mention it also has Japanese dial. Is that a common feature throughout the eagle 7 series or is it a rarer one?
Cheers
You’re welcome – I’m not sure about the Kanji wheel, but most of the ones you see are not Japanese, so maybe it is unusual. Stephen
Hi Stephen!
I recently happend to break the crystal on the watch. Would you be able to tell how can I get a replacement crystal?
Swapnil
Hi many thanks for the info about citizen watches …
i have an old citizen automatic (i remember) from argos UK, the watch has few scratches as is been used daily for swimming, gym, digging in farm, building work and in general almost any activity, using it more than 10 years daily (& still work by now at time writing (just was on the side for something like 10 years or so, as turned into the casio g-shocks)…perhaps due to heavy activity (hand’s activity at most times) it was about 5 minutes a head each month
is exact this one here
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/citizen-21-jewel-eagle-automatic-day-244736884
…but if can be find approximately a date was made will be great
CITIZEN WATCH CO
WATER RESIST
STAINLESS
4-R12021 RC
865781
GN-4-S
at the front has an eagle, inside the eagle & at the middle a number 7 in red (eagle 7) and under the number 6 (right at the end) a very small letters 8200-xxxxxx …also saying WR100 … 21 jewels …it has the day with 2 languages & date
many thanks for your time
Hi again, UPDATE … first please accept my apologies … i suppose to post at ” Want to know when your vintage Citizen watch was made?” but at time had too many browsers opened, looking for info & posted at wrong topic
I have to say many many thanks for all the info you have, because i have learned few informations from your blog & so from You!
At same time i have asked Citizen UK (where originally purchased in UK) & they answered fast!!!
Credit to their Service Center !!!
They believe was made since 1998 (which seems right to me because i was in UK at 1993/4 and purchased few years later, but was not remembering what year) the specific shop was a big store and they do not keep outdated watches, if they will be some old at the stock, they are going for sale and so their items are out of stock fairly fast, so i am sure Citizen has the correct date)
And also to mention they told me, there are not any parts for it, if ever needs to be repaired
My good mate at that time had a Casio 5 which he had to take it at their service center 2 times for repair and finally 3rd time the Seiko passed its life did not worked any longer after some years of daily use … the Citizen still works for me and had really bad use (even dropped at floor few times etc)
However now i am wearing it again after very long time, is going fast about 60+ seconds a day (not sure because down here in Greece i am now, is 34C hot and high temperature matters) so i guess will take it to a local shop for some regulation because seems the specific automatic watch, has some more long time (hopefully) to run ok its mechanism
From a quick testing, have find out that if i keep it stand vertical (facing the front of the watch) does not gaining time, but is impossible to keep it at this position all day or night time as i do not take it out of my hand (never any watch)
I do like the mechanical automatic watches and now is back at my hand even has a lot of scratches over the years … i have removed the casio pro sports (compass, temperature, pressure etc) & g-shock series & if the regulation will be successful will be at my hand for long time again
Again may many thanks for your time & for all the infos you are providing ! ☺… all the best and i will keep watching your blog
Hi Babis – thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comments. I agree with Citizen UK that your watch is from (June) 1998. I would think that your watch is in need of a service, although regulation alone might get it running more accurately again. Although high temperatures will have some effect on accuracy I would think it would only be small and not result in a noticeable change. I think the 8200 was originally made to run at +/- 15 seconds per day, but they can be adjusted to much better than that. Good luck with it and I hope it gives you many more years of service 🙂
Stephen
Thanks again for time … i have some info for the citizen readers may find interesting (at their own risk if they will try similar attempt) … & hope links posted are fine, if not please remove everything and accept my apologies … once started the discuss, i have a final update…
because the watch was on sale something around just £50 (on sale but brand new at time) & because the local shop wanted slightly less for a general service & regulation, i decided to just to regulate it by my self
So based on this link
& this one
http://www.watchfreeks.com/454291-post7.html
i opened the case and after about 16 or so attempts (is hard to get it correct trying with blind spots) i managed to get it at +2 seconds with in 10 hrs … yoooo hooooo … so hopefully after an other 10 hours should be 2 more seconds ahead and the other 4 hours (to complete 24 hours in total) expecting 1-2 more second ahead … hopefully will be around 5-6 max seconds a day for the caliber 8200
(note the bad bangings and hits has even the g-shock,)
NOTE > i know by now is possible for more accurate but open/close the case so many times & trying blind spots hits, i think that’s it, is fine there, compare was going fast 1+ minute a day
So yea this little machine is back at the hand after about 18 years
Just to write my personal opinion (so i may be wrong) about regulating … i have find out that the small part of the regulation that needs adjustment, is SO sensitive (moves so easy) … that i believe due to too many hard crashes my watches had & still has, i think over the years crash-crash each time, moved easy (but slightly each bang) and caused the faster timing in my case
Many thanks, and for all citizen users long last their watches, my regards to all readers
Hi Babis, thanks for the update and congrats on having a go at regulating your watch. It is a fairly easy process, but can take a lot of attempts to get it as accurate as possible, but well worth the effort and patience needed. Thanks for the links, I’m sure others will find them useful.
Stephen
Hello can you help me to identify my watches,please?
How can i send you a email?
This is mine….
Hi Jose – thanks for visiting my blog. I’ve removed your email address sice this is a pblic blog, and I see your email when you make a comment. I’ll get an email to you 🙂
Hello there. I have a vintage citizen automatic, decade 1980, i want to find his value. Any ideas how? regards
Hi Christos thanks for visiting my blog. Best way to get an idea of value is to search eBay, including completed listings, for watches like yours. Stephen
I can not find what type of SEIKO watch I have please help!!
6117-8000
842442
NAVIGATOR TIMER
WATER 70m PROOF
“STAINLESS STEEL 6117-8000 WATER PROOF” (around the back of the case) “SEIKO” (in the center of the back of the case) “842442” (below SEIKO) “JAPAN U” (below 842442″
Hi Chad – well, this is a vintage Citizen blog, so may not be the best place for a Seiko question 😉 However, I do know the Navigator Timer and it is a nice watch – here’s an article that should help: https://adventuresinamateurwatchfettling.wordpress.com/2014/07/20/seiko-6117-8000-navigator-timer/.
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
Good day. I came across a citizen watch that belongs to my dad. It was not maintained well, but what surprised me is that its still ticking without requiring any repair work. This has made me a fan of mechanical watches and is veering me away form the craze of smart watches.
I am trying to find out the model and date the production. your help in this regard is highly appreciated. I am writing down all that i seen on the back case
4-72102 Y
Automatic
01020110
67-5075
Citizen | Stainless Steel | GN – 1-5 | PARAWATER
on the watch dial I see
Citizen
Automatic
21 Jewels
kindly help in identifying the model and year of production and any further literature about this model. Thanks in advance
regards,
Balaji
Hi Balaji, thanks for visiting my blog. Your watch is a Seven Star V2 model, from October 1970 (from first three figures in the serial number). Inside is a 21 jewel movement from the 72 family of movements – there is more info about the 72’s here: https://sweep-hand.org/2012/09/26/this-weeks-featured-watch-41-the-seven-star-v2-7280/ and here is the 72 ‘family tree: https://sweephand.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/72leopardsevenstarfamilytreesecure.pdf
If your is not marked ‘Seven AStar V2’ on the dial, then it is an export model. Citizen usually omitted these logos from their export model dials.
And just one more point, there should be one more figure in the case number – 4-72102x since these numbers should have six digits after the ‘4-‘.
Stephen
Thanks for your prompt reply Stephen. You are right, it reads, 4-721012 Y. It was purchased in India, so it must be the export model, and in line with what you said does not carry the logo of the specific model. Once again thanks so much.
You’re welcome Balaji 🙂 I hope the watch continues to give good service. Stephen
Hello, can you help with the identification of my Citizen watches?
https://www.zonerama.com/Chuck47/Album/2292394
I apologize for my bad English, I use Google Translator 🙂
Hi Chuck, thanks for visiting my blog and apologies for my slow reply. Although I don’t know the quartz movements so well, I do know that the 1400 movement in your ‘Seven’ diver was made around 1980. It was innovative at the time since it was the first to have an extended battery life, of around 8 years. Typically batteries would only last a year of two at that time. Your watch is from May 1982.
Here’s the relevant technical manual which tells you more about it: http://www.thewatchsite.com/files/Citizen%20Technical%20Manuals/1400.pdf
Stephen
Thank you very much!
You’re welcome 🙂
any info about this one. thanks
[img]https://s19.postimg.org/5vboa0zdv/originalslika_Citizen_119531603.jpg[/img]
[img]https://s19.postimg.org/aihqbsmqr/originalslika_Citizen_119531599.jpg[/img]
sorry for dead links, maybe this works
Hi Kole, thanks for visiting my blog. I can’t tell you very much about this watch I’m afraid, since it is a quartz model and somewhat later than the mainly mechanical ones I am most familiar with. I can tell you it has a 6031 movement inside and was probably made in 1988. For more info see this technical manual: http://www.thewatchsite.com/files/Citizen%20Technical%20Manuals/6031.pdf
Stephen
Hello Stephen,
I’m really amazed to see this blog! It’s full of really interesting info about citizen watches! I really wonder how you could possibly know all of this…
So, maybe I have an interesting challenge for you…let’s see if you know more then citizen uk.
I bet you do!
My father has just donated to me his first watch ever, please see details below:
engraved on the back
CITIZEN WATCH CO. WATHER RESISTANT
ALL STAINLESS STEEL
4-211227 TA
0020887
44-8290
Gn-7w-u
Japan
I had a look on your blog and I asked uncle google, but I cannot find any info about this watch.
The first 4 digits of the case number suggest is a 21xx series movement but engraved on the actual movement says 1200B which doesn’t come up anywhere. I asked citizen uk and they cannot find this watch, they said it’s too old. The first 00 on the case number make me think is either from 1970 or 1980 but according to my father it’s definitely earlier then 1980.
Could you please help me in finding more info about the watch but more in particular the movement?
Hi Alessio, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comments – much appreciated. Interesting to see that you didn’t get information from Citizen, although not surprising – I have had the same experience – it was the lack of historical reference material on the internet that led me to set about my research and then publish this blog. So here is what I can say about your father’s watch based on all the helpful info you have provided. Firstly, the watch is a quartz model with the 1200B movement inside, as you have discovered. This is a fairy early quartz movement, although not one of the very early ones. Quartz technology was first seen in Citizen’s line-up in 1974, still driving a hairspring in the first model. That was soon replaced by a ‘stepping motor’ design and the first generation of those appeared in the later 1970s, although the new technology meant they were very expensive. As the technology was developed and mass production increased more and more models became available, with a subsequent drop in prices. Your watch fits in between these two positions (i.e still fairly expensive!), since I believe it was made in February 1980 – this is derived from the first three figures in the serial number. The 1200B movement was not made in 1979 (I have checked that in my reference material), and I suspect it had only a short production run since so little information is available and it seems to be a rather rare thing as a result. Although serial numbers don’t tell us what decade a watch was made in, given quartz watches were not made in 1970 and your father’s recollections of its age, this seems the correct date to me.
Unfortunately, Citizen’s practice of using case numbers that helped to identify the movement was not maintained, so ‘4-211227′ doesn’t help with that. However, I know 4-211xxx numbers and ’44’ model numbers were both used on the 1200B models.
I can usually find a technical manual for Citizen’s quartz movements, but I’m afraid not for this one. This adds weight to my conclusion that the 1200B was something of a transitional movement that was not produced for very long.
I hope this helps, Stephen
Hello Stephen,
Thanks a lot, this really helps.
Is the movement a variant of a 1200 and the B defines the movement variant or it’s a stand alone movement? Uncle google also believe that this movement has been superseded by the 7991. Does it ring any bell to you?
Would you be able to tell in what other watches this movement has been used?
I’m trying to understand if i can find donor watches.
The watch is working fine at the moment but it had a battery leak which has corroded around the battery and the watchmaker wasn’t able to quantify the damage.
I have been told that it is better not service this watch at all due to its age. Do you agree?
Thanks
Alessio
Hi Alessio, you’re welcome 🙂 I don’t know if there was a 1200’A’ – I can’t find any reference to it so maybe not. It’s possible that the 7991 movement replaced it, that was around in the mid to late 1980s I think, and discontinued around 1990 but I don’t have reference material for this later period. I can’t advise on whether to service it (I’m not a watch techie) although I suppose the adage ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ may apply. A donor watch is the most likely source of parts or a full movement. However, here is the only example I’ve been able to find so far, from a post over 5 years ago: http://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japanese-watch-discussion-forum/16574-id-please-identify-citizen-quartz.html
Besides searching eBay, the other place you could try is Yahoo Japan (http://auctions.search.yahoo.co.jp/search?rkf=2&p=citizen+quartz&aucmaxprice=999999999&thumb=1&s1=score2&o1=a&ei=utf-8). Type Citizen Quartz or Citizen CQ in the search box and see what comes up. I saw one model 4-212xxx which could be the no day/date version of the 1200. If you are patient then regular searches of YJ might eventually come up with a suitable donor. Unfortunately Japanese sellers rarely show movement pictures so you have to be sure that it is right from the description / external pics. It’s fairly easy to buy from YJ, but you have to go through a proxy service such as Buyee. Let me know if you want more info on how to do that.
Stephen
Hi i’m from Belgium my name is Dirk i have 3 citizen bullheads and i’m looking for original parts who can help me wfr
Hi Dirk, thanks for visiting my blog. Hard to find original 8110 parts these days, so usually donor watches/movements or used parts have to be used. Can sometimes be found on eBay (search for Citizen 8110a should work), and ‘Speedtimerkollection’ in Spain often has bits and pieces. Of course the problem with used parts is that their condition may not be good or unclear. If you know what you are looking for, a search using the specific part number might find something.
Stephen
Ok thanks i will search ,you have a great website lots of info nice to learn thanks
You’re welcome – and thanks for your positive feedback 🙂
Hi i’m back merry christmas. i just buying a octagone do you know somebody who can do a little restauration
Hi Dirk – Happy Christmas. I can recommend Brian Leiser, who has serviced a number of my watches. He’s in the USA – let me know if you want me to send you his email address. Stephen
Yes please if you want to is it expensive for restauration .Dirk
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
>
Hi Dirk – good quality servicing and restoration is quite expensive. I’m sure Brian will give you an idea of the potential cost. Email on the way with his contact details. Stephen
HI,
I would like to know something more about this watch.
Can u help me please.
(http://www.njuskalo.hr/muski-satovi/citizen-17-jewels-nato-mint-stanje-oglas-5690193)
Hi Mate, thank you for visiting my blog. The watch in the link is a hand-winder with a Homer (02) movement inside, made for export since it has no model name on the dial and is marked ‘water protected’ / ‘unbreakable spring’ rather than ‘parawater’. The case back markings confirm the movement used, 63-XXXX model numbers and 4-02xxxx case numbers are typical of the Homer models. The serial number looks to start with 103xxxxx so it was made in March 1971. The style of the case back and the numbering are correct for the late 1960s/early 1970s. The 02 movement was first produced in 1960 and continued in production for over 20 years. More info here:
Stephen
Thanks for this fantastic blog! I’ve just been given a Citizen Parawater Automatic, 4-540085 Y, 90711563. Can you give me any info on this 17-Jewel gem?
Cheers,
-Greg in Raleigh, NC
Hi Greg, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment. Can you please confirm that you have one of these:
(with acknowledgement for this image to the seller)
Sometimes incorrect case backs have been used, so I thought I’d check first before going into any detail about it 🙂
Stephen
Hi Stephen – That looks exactly like mine.
Hi Greg – thanks for confirming this is the one 🙂 What you have is a diver style sports model that was sometimes carried the ‘Compact’ model logo for the Japanese market. They are fairly rare, especially in good condition. They are not depth rated so are not ‘true’ divers, so I have not included it on the diver reference page, but they do look nice 🙂 The automatic movement is the 5400 with 17 jewels, the day only version of the better known 5200 series which was used in the Crystal Seven range. These movements were first produced in 1965, and were Citizen’s most successful watches at that time once they phased out the ‘Jet’ automatics in favour of the more conventional swinging weight auto winding mechanism. This design of movement was adopted to allow thinner models, which became the fashion and which the thicker ‘Jet’ could not support. It runs at 18,000 beats per hour, which was the norm for the majority of watches at the time. The 5200 movement came in many models and with varied jewel counts right up to 43! The 5400 was not used quite as much, but nevertheless had jewel counts of 17, 21, 27, 33 and 35. The 33 and 35 jewel movements were used in the high end ‘Chrono Master’ range – indicating that this movement is capable of very good performance.
Your example is case number 4-540085, which clearly indicates the 54 movement inside. There’s no separate model number. Finally the first three figures in the serial number gives a production date of July 1969.
Stephen
WOW! This is fantastically detailed and hugely appreciated. Turns out the watch was made around my first birthday! I loved the watch before, but this makes it super special.
You’re welcome Greg – nice to have a watch that’s almost the same age as you 🙂 Stephen
hi Stephen
I´m sorry if this is my second post about the same issue but i xN´T FIND THE ORIGINAL
I have a women divers citizen, about 33mm, i think around 1980 model, in quite good shape
It has the following numbers in the car GN 4 S, and 54-0919 among other numbers.
I´m looking if possible for the original rubber band and an idea of it´s value
can you help me ?
best regards and thanks in advance
Hi, good to hear from you again – no need to apologise 🙂 A fellow collector has one of these divers and he believes the rubber strap on his is an original example https://vintagecitizenwatches.com/2014/03/15/citizen-ladies-diver-150m-model-54-0919/
I don’t know how much one of these is likely to cost I’m afraid. Lugs are 14mm so I suggest searching Yahoo Japan using that measurement.
Stephen
Hi,
So sorry to ask….but I am afraid I have not find out an answer to this question before
Which glass/crystal number should fit in a Citizen Seven Star Parawater APSS-2812-Y?
Thanks in advance
Hi Juan, sorry for my late reply. The original crystal part number for this model is 54-0145. Stephen
Hi, awesome Citizen reference page! a true gem for citizen fans!
I was recently sold an “alleged” caliber 52-0110 vintage diver, and having never owned one, I bought it a decent price. However, after doing some googling, i see that i cannot at all see this versiob of 150m diver anywheree in the net, making me afraid this is a frankenwatch. All samples of 52-0110 have square markers and mercedes hands while this has round markers and differene hands.I hope Im wrong, but here are pics of the vintage 150m citizen I bought, hope you can help me identify it, or determine if this is indeed a franken. Thanks!!
Hi Claude, thanks for visiting my blog, and for your kind comment. I’m afraid that your watch is something of a franken. As you have suspected, it looks like the original 52-0110 dial has been replaced by a later version, from the 1980s. This later one still used the 8200 automatic movement, and was rated to 150m so maybe the original movement and dial were in poor condition but the case was rescued and re-furbished.
Stephen
Dear Stephen, I could provide you with the nice photos of (almost mint) blue-dialed 67-5776 (dec.1970, made for and sold on German market) for your beautiful mechanical diver reference gallery, if you’re interested. I could also share with the community one interesting finding I made on the silicone strap with curved ends fitting this 67-5776 case perfectly, giving it fantastic smart and contemporary, almost premium look. I don’t want to spam the comments- so I’m asking. Thank you.
Hi Tardima, many apologies for my slow reply to your comment – I was away for a few days. It would be great to have photos of your watch 🙂 Although you can’t post pics directly here, you can post a link if you have uploaded them. Or I can email you privately if you prefer. Thanks for offering your images. Stephen
I wish I knew your email…Thought you will drop me a message to my mail (you can get from my comment data, through your wordpress backend) so I can respond to with images. Thank you for your interest.
Hello I have found this clock in an antique shop. I hope you can tell me something about this. Movement – old – a rarity – value.
Citizen Day Date 25 Jewels Automatic Waterproof M51301 / 60401098
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AjonpNidPSCDgYpxIsy6Xak3TCHn9Q
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AjonpNidPSCDgYpzmKAOZl8cZg5xwA
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AjonpNidPSCDgYpyY_jvYcGyjD7ntw
Hi Frank, thanks for visiting my blog. Nice watch 🙂 The case back markings (i.e ‘Waterproof’, ‘M51301’, ‘anti-magnetic’, ‘unbreakable spring’) tell us that this was made for export rather than the Japanese domestic market. Had it been for Japan, the model number would have been ADS 51301, i.e. an Autodater Seven, and the dial would have had an applied ‘7’ logo. Export models usually have no model name on the dial. What is nice about this one, which is pretty rare in export form, is that it has the 410 movement inside. This is the later version of the ‘Jet’ automatic, which was Citizen’s in-house designed automatic from 1962 to the mid 1960s before they adopted a more conventional swinging weight type. For more info on the Jets see here: https://sweep-hand.org/the-jet-automatic/ You can see the 25 jewel 410x movement listed. And here is my example (not an export version) with more info: https://sweep-hand.org/2013/03/26/this-weeks-featured-watch-48-jet-auto-dater-seven-25-jewels/ I hope the watch is running well – it’s a good one to have. Stephen
I should have said as well that your watch was made in April 1966 🙂 Stephen
Thank you for your quick response.
I am very happy with the clock it runs perfectly.
I have seen them as an autodater from 1966 but none found without the mark 7.
But now I know that there were differences in the export version.
Many Thanks
Frank
You’re welcome 🙂 Stephen
Hello there! I want to know the year of manufacture. My watch is : CITIZEN WATCH CO. 4- 822145 Y 8070218 GN-4-5 Sl-2273
Thank You!
Hi Shilu, thanks for visiting my blog. I believe your diver is from July 1978. Stephen
Hi, I just picked up a citizen watch second hand in Japan and wondered if you had any information on it. The serial number on the back is GN-7W-S and there’s also a code which is “4-211481 TA 0 0102003”. On the front it says “Citizen Quartz” and “Water Resist 100”
Hi Joseph, thanks for visiting my blog. I’m afraid I can’t help much, partly because quartz models are later than my collecting period, and partly because the info you’ve provided doesn’t shed light on what quart movement is inside. Can you see a dial code on the dial – usually beneath the 6 o’clock marker, but printed very small so you may need a magnifier to read it properly? Stephen
oh yeah. It’s 1200-211569-Y
Hi Joseph, sorry for my late reply, I had missed your comment with the dial code. This tells us the yours has the 1200 movement inside. I’m afraid I don’t know much about the quartz movements since they are later the time period I know best. I’m pretty sure that yours is from 1980, so it’s a relatively early model. Stephen
Thank a lot! I just wondered how old it was really.
Hi… My name Rajesh avasia from india,
I have one watch which is citizen crystal seven 21 jewels,
Automatic…80102879GN. ACSS 2815Y….. it work well… could you please give me more history’s for this watch… My dad gifted me. I love this watch very much.
Thanking you,
Regards,
Rajesh avasia
Hi Rajesh, thank you for visiting my blog. Good to see that your watch is running well. It is one of the Crystal 7 Custom models, and was made in January 1968. The Crystal 7 line was a successful range of automatics using the 52xx movements first produced in 1965. They were named ‘crystal’ because they used hardened mineral glass for the first time, with a variety of movements using different jewelling, up to 43! The ‘custom’ models featured more modern case designs at the time, some (like yours I believe) with split date and date windows, and I think yours probably has the 5210 movement inside. One of the ACSS 2815 models, with 23 jewels, was the first Citizen to feature colour on the dial (on the hour markers) and was known as the ‘Niagara’. For more info on the Crystal 7’s here are a couple of mine:
Stephen
Dear Friend and Web Administrator STEPHEN THANKS for a SO beutiful archive about Citizen Watches. I have to ask a question about this DIVERS Vintage Citizen Article and it has for me a difficult answer: I am referring to the two old divers references 1120 (19 jewels): Jet Auto Dater – Case Number: ADRS 51301-DA. Dear Stephen if you pay attention you will see that MINUTES marker slines betwen one raised marker and the following are not 3 (for a total of 5 minute including main marker and so on… but there are ONLY TWO WHITE lines!! so a raised marker + 2 White lines + further raised markers…And finally the question: these dial are original of course and are vintage divers too BUT which is the meaning not to have the common 5 minutes indication??? I hope to have explained well my question; I suppose that this is not a Mistake on Printing old dials but relating to Immersion timing or Decompressione timing…Could explain me please ? Why this strange minutes indication ?? there is an explanation certainly….and those dials have been commited by Citizen expressely with this feature.. Thanks for an help and explanation Giulio
Hi Giulio, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comments. I don’t own one of these 1120 divers so I can’t check it out directly, but here’s a link to a very clear image, which confirms that there are just two minute markers between the hour markers: https://vintagecitizenwatches.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/citizen-jet-auto-dater-120m.jpg
Looking carefully at the dial design, given that there is no gap on the outside of the hour markers for a minute track to run around, the outer edges of those markers effectively become the 1st and 4th minute markers to maintain the correct spacing of the minutes track. This has allowed the hour markers to be very wide to help with clarity when diving. I think that’s the likeliest explanation rather than anything else.
Stephen
many thanks Dear Stephen ..Thanks for your reply…since Now I will try to find Citizen old d vers…because I love vintage divers models And I don’t know that Citizen put on market models since 1962!! About These diald strange feature please if you have a friend passioned in diving try to ask him. It is an important detail to discover…I suppose It is related to immersion Times and to decompressor time…when the diver begin to go up to surface of the se a…Rhanks of you will find the solution Top Posta and forum Giulio
You’re welcome Guilio
What about 63-1230 and 10900970 and 4-18055ITA, what kind of Citizen is that? Just got a new glass, and it runs just fine apart from that. It’s furthermore 21Jewels and Parawater.
Best regards
Jonas
Hi Jonas, thanks for visiting my blog. The 63-1230 has a ‘Homer’ date movement, and is from September 1971. They Homer moveemnts are very good, one version was used by the Japan National Railways, so had to be accurate and reliable. You can find more info by searching this blog for ‘Homer’. Stephen
Thanks! 😀/Jonas
You’re welcome
hi… thanks for making such a great blog… 🙂
i would like to know the year of my watch and if this is original or fake… let me know what you think
front top: – citizen
– quartz
front bottom: logo == x == (something like wings)
back middle it says: – citizen watch co
– water resist
– stainless
– 6100-G00660
– 740297
– GN-4-S
– Japan => 12
thank you
Hi Thomas, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment. Apologies for my late reply – I got a bit distracted by the festive season 🙂 I’m not so familiar with quartz models, but as far as I can tell yours is a genuine model – the 6100-G00660 model/case number is an authentic Citizen one. I would think it was made in 1987. Stephen
Hi there Ihave just bought a citizen eco drive pro diver bj805o _08 and notice that the hour hand is not red when and the ones i have seen on other models are can anyone tell me why
Regards ian
Hi Ian, I’m afaid I can’t help much since your watch is a modern model. I had a quick look on the internet and all the the ones I saw had an orange framed minute hand. Stephen
Hi there thanks for the response Steven
Regards
Ian
You’re welcome, and sorry I couldn’t be of more help
Hi, my name is carlos and I am from Brazil, I bought a citizen and their infs back are:
Citizen watch co.
Water resist
Stainless
4-038835 hst
6D6418 or 60418
Gn-4-S
Japan
Could you help me to identify what year is this watch?
Hi Carlos, thanks for visiting my blog. I think the serial number is more likely to be 606418 – if so, then I would think you have an Eagle 7 from June 1986. Stephen
GREAT info here!!!! Thanks for all the hard work! My ’75 62-6198 says HI! I’m wearing it with a generic oyster bracelet. I have the original but it’s missing 1 end link 😦
https://photos.smugmug.com/Horology/Wristwatch/Citizen-62-6198/i-2SHvNcS/0/cc137e14/L/IMG_6890-L.jpg
Hi Chris, thanks for you kind comments 🙂 What a shame about the end link! It looks very nice. Stephen
Hi Stephen. I have a Citizen octagon Bullhead chronograph with 8110a Movement. I had a local jeweler try to Center the sundial hands, and he couldn’t put the watch back correctly to make it work again. Who can look at it and repair it? Thanks
Hi Stephen, i am a regular visitor to your wonderful site. Recently I acquired a 51 – 2273 , a little bashed about but at a very good price, i thought. It has a 8 digit serial #. is this correct for this model? # is 91101167 . I’m guessing november 1979?
Art
Hi Art, sorry for my late reply. Yes you are right about the date on your 51-2273 🙂 Stephen
Hi, my name is Gary and I am from TAIWAN, I bought a citizen and their infs back are:
Water resist 150M
Base Titanium Ti
2041-203682Y
3030087
Gn-4W-S
Japan
Could you help me to identify what year is this watch?
https://www.letao.com.tw/yahoojp/auctions/item.php?aID=u214725206
Hi, thanks you for visiting my blog and apologies for my late reply. I’m afraid I don’t know the more recent quartz models so I can’t give much information. This model is a Pro Master, using a 2041 quartz movement – so the earliest it will be is the 1990s. So it’s most likely from 1993, based on the serial number. Sorry I can’t be of more help. Stephen
I just purchase a 5270 (21 jewels): Twin Crowns – Case Number: 4-520343 Y /Serial number 904111231, Parawater diving watch. The second hand is not the luminous dot. The second hand has a rectangle about 3/4 down towards the markers. The patina and aging matches the rest of the watch as if it had been there indefinitely or switch early on. Did this watch come with a variations of second hands?
Hi, thanks for visiting my blog. You’ve asked a good question! I have seen this type of second hand on this model only once before – like you describe the lume on the rectangle matched the rest of the dial:
Unfortunately I don’t have any original catalogue or advertising images of this model so I can’t say for sure whether it came originally with this option I’m afraid. The one I’ve seen is marked ‘waterproof’ rather than ‘parawater’ so the different second hand might have been used on some export models. Do you have a pic you could upload somewhere and post a link? Unfortunately you can’t post a photo directly here. Stephen
would it be possible to email you a photo? Funny, that is the only photo I have to compare to my watch. Although, mine has parawater stated on dial and case back, which I have read was made for the Japanese market.
Well that’s one theory out the window! 🙂 I’ll send you an email so you can send a pic, Stephen
Great website! I’ve been searching the net for info on my yard sale watch and I’m completely confused now.This website has a wealth of information but I’ve yet to find the correct info. I’m hesitating on taking the back off until I have the right tools. Below is all the writing on the front and back. Any info is of course greatly appreciated.
FRONT…
Citizen Quartz
Water Resist
200M
BACK….
Citizen Promaster
Citizen Watch Co.
Water Resist
20BAR
Stainless
5502
F50352
Y
GN-4-S
Japan
523236
Hi and thanks for visiting my blog. Your watch is more recent than the models I am most familiar with, but i can tell you that the model number for it is 5502-F50352. This tells us that the moveemnt inside is a 5502 quartz module. Here is the relevant technical manual for that movement, which should help you maintain it correctly: https://www.thewatchsite.com/files/Citizen%20Technical%20Manuals/5502.pdf Stephen
What a fantastic resource! Quick question. Do you know whether the 6000 4-600851Y / 62-6198 model from 1974-75 has a screw down crown? Many thanks, Chris
Hi Chris, thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comment. The crown is a screw down type, but it is an earlier type and has en external thread that engages with a thread machined into the case. Let me know if you need more info and I’ll send more detail. Stephen
Thank you, Stephen. Is it possible to make this model water resistant enough for swimming? Can Are parts such as gaskets still available? Any other parts you suggest I replace to maximize water resistance? Chris
I would always advise not to use vintage pieces in water, even with new gaskets, since any pitting to the metal could reduce resistance. I would recommend having it serviced, pressure tested and guaranteed water resistant to be sure it could used in water, and that would include gaskets etc. I don’t know off hand what parts might still be available – I’d have to check part numbers and see whether they are still available. Stephen
Thank you Stephen. Would you be able to tell me if the following parts are still available for this model? Gasket for caseback, gasket for crown and crystal. I think these are the main weak spots for water resistance so would try to have these replaced. If you don’t have the time, perhaps you could supply the part numbers, and I will try to determine availability. I will definitely have pressure tested after servicing as you suggest. Chris
hi Chris, the case back gasket is part# 393-0045, this is available on eBay from an Australian seller. Crystal gasket is 393-4189 – a quick Google of that one din’t come up with anything I’m afraid. The crown gasket # is 392-0052 – again a quick Google didn’t find anything. Stephen
Thank you, Stephen. Do you know the part numbers for gaskets for this model?
4-822145Y
I think this is an earlier model than 4-600851Y. Is that right?
Chris
Hi Stephen, apologies for my torrent of questions. If one were to source a crystal for 4-820789Y, do you know the part number? Any idea whether this crystal is available anywhere? Thank you, Chris
No problem Chris 🙂 The pat number for that case is 54-51810. Stephen
Hi Stephen, here I go again. 😊 Do you know the part number for the bezel insert of this model: 4-600851 Y, 62-6198? Thank you, Chris
Hi Chris – there’s no part number for the insert, as with the bezel itself, it is just part of the whole case. So I’m afraid they are very difficult to find. There were some good aftermarket ones made to the original spec a few years ago, so it may be worth asking in the relevant forums whether anyone has anything for sale. Stephen
Fantastic article… It did explain a lot.
Thank you very much
You’re welcome Claudio, and tanks for your kind comment. Stephen
Hi Stephen I am Marco from Italy
I just bought a 67-5776 (4-720521) number 20300XXX Parawater 7270 movement,
could you help me, on rotor of 7270 movement in my watch. there is a 33 jewels write engraved, I thinks is a new replacemnet rotor or…?
Thanks a lot and greetings from Tuscany Marco
Hi Marco, thanks for visiting my blog. I’m sure you are correct to say that the rotor has been replaced. The 7270 has 21 jewels, and there were no 72xx movements with 33 jewels. Stephen
I have seen a few dressy “divers” using the 6000 cal with a stick figure of a frogman / diver on the dial. Have you any of those in your collection?
Thanks for visiting my blog – I think I know the logo you mean, but I haven’t got an example in my collection I’m afraid. Stephen
I have a very small citizen automatic gn-4-s divers watch 150m.
I can’t seem to find any information on and was wondering if you could help me.
Thank you
William
Hi William, thanks for visiting my blog. It sounds like you have model number 54-0919, which is Citizen’s only vintage diver for women, or youngsters maybe. It was made in the late 1970s using the 6601 day/date movement. Citizen also made a diver-like ‘Lady Alarm’ as well, with an external bezel. Does the watch have a serial number on the back? That will give us a production date. Here’s a link to more info., with thanks to the Vintage Citizen Watches site: https://vintagecitizenwatches.com/tag/citizen-vintage-ladies-watch/ Stephen
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Hello everybody and Hi Stephen, could anybody give me some more information on my Manual winding Citizen please? I talked to the corporate office in LA and they helped me as much as they could and told me to contact the headquarters in Tokyo to get a manual or more information. I love the watch it is very accurate as long as you keep it wound, of course. 😉
Thank you,
Justin
Backplate : https://imgur.com/hcYsI37
Face : https://imgur.com/Sq8Ycxi
On my wrist : https://imgur.com/q61N5ZO
Hi Justin, thanks for visiting my blog, and thanks for the links to your images. The movement in your watch is the date version of a calibre usually known as the ‘Homer’ – it’s called this because it was first used in a model called the Homer in 1960, although that had no date and its official designation was the 0200. A year later the date version was launched, and the movement was designated the 1800 – there were a few derivations of that, 1800, 1801, 1802, 1840 and 1841. Yours will be one of those, but can only be confirmed by opening it to find the movement number which should be stamped on the movement near the balance mechanism. The 02 and 1800 calibres were produced for over 20 years as they proved reliable and accurate – as you have found 🙂 They run at 18,000 beats per hour (5 per second) which is typical of older watches. They were made with 17, 19 or 21 jewels and all were hand winders of course. One version of the 0200 movement was issued to Japan National Railways staff, so that’s a good measure of its quality. Yours is one of the later models – it’s marked ‘water resistant’ not ‘waterproof’ so it is later than 1973 when ‘proof’ was last used. The first three figures in the serial number tells us the exact production date – year first – so it was made in March 1975 (503). It is in very nice condition so it has been well looked after. I don’t think I’ve seen a manual for these. Let me know if want any technical stuff – part numbers for example.
Here’s a bit more info on the 0200 movement:
Please ask if you have any other questions. Stephen
Thank you so much for that knowledge bomb drop! I would gladly take the technical stuff, and I do have a picture with the back plate open and it appears to be 1802 movement, that is if I am looking at the right spot.
Thank you so much, I have been searching for months to find more information about this baby and I finally got recommended to come here.
It is such a beautiful watch and I had been looking for a manual winder for years, one that wasn’t going to break the bank right now. I got a good deal on it. The only thing I do have a question about, is should I pay to get a sapphire crystal put on it?Thank you so much, words cannot express my enjoyment with this piece of fine art.
Sincerely,
Justin
Back Plate Open Picture : https://imgur.com/2ool6ES
Hi Justin – you’re welcome 🙂 Yep, 1802 is correct for the movement. The original glass on these is plexi, i.e. plastic so I don’t know of a sapphire one that would fit. I’ll email you scans of movement schematics, and a document with the dimensions of the crystal. Stephen
Thanks Stephen, I will take any and all the information you have on my specific model of watch if it is not too much of a burden. What is the best way to benefit your work? Is there somewhere I can donate, subscribe on Facebook, twitter, etc? I would like to donate if I could because you have been a great help and I am sure will continue to be.
Thank you,
Justin
You’re welcome – I don’t ask for donations for what I do Justin, no need to worry about that. If you have an irresistible urge please feel free to make a donation to the JDRF – my granddaughter nearly died when she was just 10 months old after a viral infection triggered Type 1 diabetes. She’s a very strong 6 year old (nearly 7 she would say!) now, but has to have insulin all the time, it’s been quite a journey for her and her parents. Stephen
I will definitely be donating sir.
that’s very kind, thanks Justin. Stephen
Greetings from the Philippines.
I came across your excellent site while searching for the battery type (I believe it has 3) of my Promaster GN-4-S, serial number 3000009.
I retired some 12 years ago and retired my trusty Promaster (veteran of 1,746 dives) at the same time.
Do you happen to know the battery type for this model? Any help would be gratefully received.
Regards,
Peter
Hi Peter, thanks for visiting my blog. Can you please tell me what the model or case number is? It should be on the case back – GN-4-S is the case type so I can’t get the movement from that, nor from the serial number I’m afraid. Great to see that a dive watch has been well-used for its proper purpose 🙂 Stephen
Hi Stephen. Thank you for the very quick reply. I would post a picture, if I knew how 🙂 .
The markings on the case (and I give them all) are C520-Q00371 HST GN-4-S.
The “Q” may be a “0” and looking closer, the Serial Number is 3D0009, not 300009 as I previously wrote. Thanks again. Peter
Hi there Stephen! I have a pair of replacement crowns and stems for the 5270 movement. Was wondering if you can describe how to remove the current ones – they’re unlike seiko movements and I can’t see to find the lever / button to depress. Any advice would be appreciated!
Hey there Stephen,
I’m posting again because the last one seems to have been auto-deleted. I’ve got a question about the two crowns on the Seven Star diver (5270). I got my hands on a pair of replacement crowns and would like to replace them myself.
Having worked on Seiko movements before I looked around for the familiar lever / button that will release the stem, but can’t seem to find it.
Was wondering if this would be an easy enough operation for me, of would I have to rely on a watchmaker to have this done? Any advice would be appreciated please.
Regards,
Arthur from Singapore
Hi Arthur, thanks for visiting my blog. I’m not a watchmaker myself, so I can’t tell you how the stem for the rotating wheel is removed I’m afraid. The winding stem is removed by gently pressing a button near the stem, with the crown pulled fully pulled out. Here’s a pic showing the button:
Stephen
anyone have a technical manual for the 7270 moondater?
Thanks
I have a Citizen watch cn -4-8 I find a lot about cn 4-s but nothing about the cn 4-8 Can you help me find out what it is worth
Hi Hal, sorry for late reply. I don’t try to value watches I’m afraid. CN-4-8 is a case type code, so doesn’t tell me the model. If you want more info on the watch please let me know what else is on the case back and the dial.
thanks sweep hand , most informative , I have a new appreciation of the quite exceptional work Citizen were doing in the 50s to 70s. When cleaning out my deceased fathers possessions came across a para water automatic 4-520858Y 91224165 , to my astonishment started working when I picked it up! Bezel missing but the watch maker had something similar to the original .Have had it serviced and am wearing it with renewed interest thanks to you. Best Wishes Ros Brown
Sorry for my late response – glad to be of help, and great to hear about your late father’s watch starting up, although that doesn’t surprise me! 🙂 Stephen
Hello Sweep hand),
Reading yours and Bogdan’s blog I have got bitten by the vintage Citizen bug and it itches more than the Seiko one for sure! Thank you!
Manage to acquire Alarm Date Parawater ALDS 52902-Y, 62-6198 and 52-0110 150m divers.
All in good movement wise condition, but with missing exterior parts.
Do you have any parts or sources where I can dive in. There is so much charm in these pure tool watches and I will do my best to bring them back to the previous glory and enjoy them in years to come.
Like someone said “Not all speedmasters come from Switzerland, neither do the lollipop hands))
Any feedback will be much appreciated!
Stay safe!
Best regards
Filip
hi Filip, thanks for visiting my blog and apologies that I have caused an itch! Unfortunately casing parts for these models are very, very hard to come by these days, so I’m afraid I can’t help with sources, nor do I have parts (I’ve never collected the diver models so I haven’t acquired any bits and pieces). This has always been a problem for Citizen enthusiasts, historically there has been a shortage of parts for the most popular/collectable models. Stephen
Thank you for the kind response, Stephen!
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